« Herman Munster's Long Lost Twin | Main | Kerry Continues to Soar »

July 11, 2004

"Fahrenheit 9/11": How Bush became the #1 Hated Man

Michael Moore's "Fahrenheit 9/11" has broken box office records as the most lucrative documentary. Good for Moore but bad for Bush. Even though we don't like to admit it sometimes we sway our opinion towards by what the media says and by what the film industry finds acceptable. Right now its cool to hate Bush, more so than ever. In "Fahrenheit 9/11", Bush is made fun of clip after clip by Moore and seen as a rambling buffoon.

Posted by Tuck at July 11, 2004 09:57 PM

Comments

this movie is the bigest piece of garbage and lies ever perpetrated on the American public. The fat slob that made this movie should be exiled to France

Posted by: guy at July 12, 2004 01:46 PM

I used to love Bush, but once you know the truth you can't go back to not knowing.

Even if half of the movie is true, we, as Americans have been lied to and deceived at the highest moral and ethical levels. It sickens me. I saw the movie on Friday night with a packed theater in Philadelphia. I had the seats right next to the door, which was upsetting at first, but for the entire 2 hours, no one moved, went to the bathroom or left the theater. The people faces after watching explain everything. They ranged from scared, betrayed, angry, unbelievably sad, some crying, while we left the theater it was completely silent, we were numb. We want to thank you Mr. Bush for the last four years, we will never forget you!

Posted by: monica at July 12, 2004 02:38 PM

You can believe 411 or you can believe sombody murdered 3000 Americans on Sept 11th.
Would Kerry just set back and let them get away with it? He most likely would. Kerry would have been afraid to make a move without world approval.
WE have had to save the world twice before with American blood. Euorpe and now Americans seems to have fogotten that. Bush has started us on the right track towards world peace. May God help those that attack our country again. We can not be soft.

Posted by: Don Blumer at July 12, 2004 04:22 PM

I recently saw the documentary and was sickened by what I saw. If even half of it is true George Bush is the worst president that we have ever had. Let's take back our country for the people, and again become honorable in our eyes and the eyes of the world.

Posted by: James Kelly at July 12, 2004 08:26 PM

Democracy works when the people avail themselves to THE FACTS not party line. Acess all the Information and make a decision based on THERE value.

Bush Lie to the American people about Iraq and 1000 of our Hero Troops are dead.Bill Clinton lied about sex and no one died.

Posted by: Gav at July 12, 2004 09:13 PM

Read Richard A. Clarke's book Agaist All Enemies. He can not be called anything other than a patriot.

Posted by: crab apple at July 12, 2004 10:04 PM

who cares what the world thinks. Did they do anything to protect us from 9/11 happening? They have no right to tell us what to do. For Moor I hope you burn in hell for your lies. When I go to visit hell I'll see your movie.

Posted by: richard evans at July 12, 2004 11:36 PM

I applaud Michael Moore for always having the courage to stand against the right, who are very good at telling anyone who disagrees to sit down and shut up (as well as making personal attacks instead of proving why this movie is supposedly "full of lies". Gee...have you even seen it? I didn't think so...But then again, they didn't even read the Patriot Act before they signed it, so speaking out of turn dosen't really surprise me. May the farce be with you...but not for long!

Posted by: emaline496 at July 12, 2004 11:55 PM

This movie does not surprise me. We all know that Iraq has no link to 9/11, and a lot of people have died because of Bush's lie. We are fighting and dying for his oil. For the first time in my life, I'm ashamed of our president. We can not afford another 4 years of this maddness.

Posted by: Min at July 13, 2004 12:47 AM

Like father and son! Our current president now only did his father a favor. He accomplished what his father did not. He is ignorant to see how this war has affected so many families. He should be impeached for his lies and he should be the one exiled to France! The director of this movie is an example of a true American; expressing his view on our president. He should be praised for his efforts.

Posted by: tasha at July 13, 2004 03:53 AM

Farenheit 911 is defintley have subjective portions which is expected from Moore. However video footage of our disatisfied soilders and mixed messages sent from the Adminstration is hard to refute. The movie as a whole disturbed me as well as a packed audience at the whole situation of our war in Iraq.

Posted by: OREN at July 13, 2004 05:21 AM

I feel bad for people like crab apple and monica. You guys are still hypnotised by the illusion that Iraq had anything to do with 9/11. I know that evrybody feels alot of anger about 9/11. Bush and friends have managed to direct that anger using false intellegence at Saddam Hussein, who actually had nothing to do with it. I'd like a leader who will take a few minutes to think things through, and figure out exactly whats going on before sending American troops out to die!

peace

Posted by: King Kos at July 13, 2004 08:17 AM

Oops.....sorry crab apple and monica, I meant Richard Evans and Don Blumer.

peace

Posted by: King Kos at July 13, 2004 08:19 AM

Even if 25% of the movie Farenheit 911 is accurate, that is more than enough to vote the Bush-Chaney administration out of office. I was once an undecided voter who typically did not vote, but now I feel obligated to vote this administration out of office.

Posted by: ramrod at July 13, 2004 09:57 AM

Did I read someone write that they wished Michael Moore to "burn in hell"? OUCH!! That's some strong language just for a movie. All I can say is for someone to carry that much anomosity there must be some truth to what the documentary said. Whether you agree or disagree video tape doesen't lie. One thing that video does reveal is one of the most intellectually deficient individuals to ever sit in the Oval Office. For those who support him all I can say is "Birds of a Feather Flock Together."

Posted by: Douglas Betts at July 13, 2004 10:18 AM

I think it's good that people have strong opinions. It's sad though that many use hatred to express themselves. Nobody knows everything and there's an infinite number of sides to every story. With great power comes even greater responsibilty. Moore thinks we can do better, so do I.

Posted by: reason at July 13, 2004 01:06 PM

I think it is crititzing 9/11 and the familys that is affeted about it. The familys that lost their loved ones in there and the ones who servived.

Posted by: Amanda at July 13, 2004 01:19 PM

anyone who accutily believes mikel moors movie is an idiot. I see you say if only 25 or 50% is correct you should impeach bush well i would like to ask you if any of it is made up how can you believe any of it or do you just believe what you want to believe?

Posted by: james watkinsw at July 13, 2004 03:26 PM

vote bush in 2004 HELL YEA!!!

Posted by: james watkinsw at July 13, 2004 03:29 PM

It's obvious that many of people commenting have not seen the film and are reacting out of FEAR. In Moores' own words:
Every single fact I state in "Fahrenheit 9/11" is the absolute and irrefutable truth. This movie is perhaps the most thoroughly researched and vetted documentary of our time. No fewer than a dozen people, including three teams of lawyers and the venerable one-time fact-checkers from The New Yorker went through this movie with a fine-tooth comb so that we can make this guarantee to you. Do not let anyone say this or that isn't true. If they say that, they are lying. Let them know that the OPINIONS in the film are mine, and anyone certainly has a right to disagree with them. And the questions I pose in the movie, based on these irrefutable facts, are also mine. And I have a right to ask them. And I will continue to ask them until they are answered. (Source: michaelmoore.com)

Posted by: Michelle at July 13, 2004 03:56 PM

Why would anyone make a movie to BLAST the president of the United States? Dont you liberals get enough BS from ABC and CBS? The is the most UNAMERICAN thing I have ever seen. Moore should be arrested for treason.

Posted by: andrew at July 13, 2004 03:58 PM

mikel moore sucks and his movie does too!!!

Posted by: james watkins at July 13, 2004 04:05 PM

I had recently seen the movie and was flabergasted and quite disturbed at its message. I have been doing some research about the verasity of the movie and most of it checks out; all but for the Carlyle Group of which Bush Sr. did not become a member until 2 months later. I must say that with all of the intelligence "flaws" that are now being reported, I can't help but to belive that the administration had a personal interest in making Iraq happen. For all of those that believe that this movie is a total lie and is only propaganda, please research the facts on your own. Its all out there. It is your civic duty. This country has changed, and I must admit for the worst. Here is a quote that I had found said by the Nazi equivlent of a Secutary of State. Taken by Herman Goreing at the Nuremburg Trials "Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger. It works the same in every country" ------ It is our American right to speak out against a sitting president. Dissent is the pillar of our democracy. And for those that suggest we should shut up and take it, you're the ones being unpatriotic.

Posted by: Jock at July 13, 2004 04:41 PM

It seems to me that Michael Moore could make a movie having Hitler comming out as the good guy, and I bet everyone in hollywood would follow right along like little sheep. Who doesn't want to be cool and trendy right?

Posted by: Summer Hill at July 13, 2004 07:43 PM

Why do we have to give in to what "the rest of the world thinks"? Its about time we have a president who isnt afraid to go after the crud of this planet. If "F"... 9?11 is nothing but a dollar sign for Michael Moore. If he really wanted a "documentary" as he calls, why wasn't it put on TV for evetone to see for free?

Posted by: Brian at July 13, 2004 10:00 PM

It amazes me to read and hear people take sides with someone with no regard to whether they're right or wrong just because they have the same political affiliation. Personally I'm appalled at the idea that our president has used the effects of 9/11 to invade a country to over throw a leader and cause more American lives to be lost for his own personal revenge. Think about who was responsible for the tragedy. It wasn't Huessen, it was BinLadin. Remember the president saying that BinLadin would be found and bought to justice?? Why hasn't "anything" been said about him during the past 12-18 months? Why was all the anger diverted from BinLadin when he was the one responsible? Hasn't anyone read the articles about the Bush's being lifelong friends with BinLadin's family? Doesn't that friendship and the fact there is NO attention on BinLadin now cause any red flags go up? I wish the American people could get their heads out of their butts and see that we have been lied to and have been taken into a war that has "NOTHING" to do with 9/11. Another thing that really bothers me is when our president made the statement that he believes that he is "the chosen one" by GOD to led the world. In my opinion his religious beliefs are more like "jail house religion" where criminals all of a sudden find religion when they get in prision with hopes of it getting them out of trouble. He did a good job convincing the religious sector that he had morals when all the while deceiving them.

Posted by: Steve at July 13, 2004 10:41 PM

I told my Republican family that I thought we were going to Iraq after Bush was elected, and I was told I was crazy. I may be crazy, but I turned out to be right. The old gang with young Bush were going to complete the job they didn't finish with old Bush. That gang had years to dream how much money could be made in a free Iraq and that it would solve all our economic problems, so as soon as they could they charged into WWIII without many allies so that they could reap all the profits from a prosperous Iraq. I didn't need Moore to figure out that Bush isn't worthy of our presidency.

Posted by: antibush christian at July 14, 2004 01:10 AM

We shouldn't care what the rest of the world thinks, yet we have to have free trade with them and live in the same world until we're able to live on another planet. If we keep saying we don't care what anyone thinks, how can we expect them to help out in Iraq? We can't do it alone.

Posted by: antibush christian at July 14, 2004 01:17 AM

I have to say Moore is a prophet of American politics. He spoke the truth and supported his views with facts..... As individuals, it is up to us whether we believe them or not. I am totally anti-Bush. I didn't need a movie to make up my mind. I decided how I felt the moment Bush took on the role of president... Bush is playing God and using the military to his unleash his power. A perfect example is when my husband, a soldier of the U.S. Army, received his orders to got back to Iraq. The top sent them down a month after he came back the first time! The Adminstration knew long before our soldiers came back that they were going to send them to Iraq again!!!!

Posted by: A Soldier's Wife at July 14, 2004 11:14 AM

dear andrew, just because F9/11 is too far to one side to be considered a true documentary, doesn't mean that Moore is unamerican. Also he's not just "blasting" our commander and chief. I am not sure if you know this andrew but our country's politics is increasingly being run by enormous corporations that give contributions in exchange for certain benefits, e.g. tax breaks, contracts to certain construction companies to rebuild Iraq, etc. In other words legalized bribery. Why do you think there's so much corporate corruption? And it's not just the Republican party. I suppose if the American way is to close your eyes to the ever changing politics and how it affects the rest of the world. Then you're right Michael Moore is unamerican.

Posted by: reason at July 14, 2004 02:10 PM

It amazes me how simplistic some view the world. It is not "a might makes "right" situation that the U.S. has embroiled itself in. It is quite laughable when those few suggest that the US has the responsibility of targeting and eliminating those countries that we do not agree with. This is a global world. Every nation depends on another for its viability; it is irrefutable. Long gone are the days of isolationism. We have a global economy, global communications grid, global agri-sytem, and the last time I remembered, terrorism is a global problem. It all boils down to a global network, in which we must create amicable relationships in order not to destroy ourselves. We, the US, depend on other countries for our own nation's sustainable viability. Just look around you. When people suggest that we don't need anyone, and that we can take care of ourselves, it really shows how uneducated and ignorant some really are; "power" depends on this. Every expert on terrorism agrees that Iraq was quite erroneous if we are to combat terror. Granted, Saddam was a bad man, but this does not negate the fact that Iraq only diverted resources and human power, and most importantly, allies away from the real battle of terror. It was not in our best interest. Of course the main argument that this administration has about Iraq, is that Saddam "was a madman", and therefore could not be trusted. For those that take it upon themselves to research the facts, and by facts I don't mean the media, but real facts, this will undoubtedly clarify itself. Saddam did not want to share power with Islamic extremist, for they were a threat to his dictatorship, e.g. the Iran revolution. People will do anything in the name of religion and overthrowing a government that is secular would be at the top of their list. Saddam understood this threat quite well and therefore outlawed religion. (Funny how some believe that Iraq was a religious country). Saddam did not use religion until after his defeat in the first gulf war, and even then, it was just a sample to pacify the masses such as putting a religious message on the national flag. Saddam's only main interest was self-preservation. He had WMDs for 20 years or so, and new quite well that if he disseminated those weapons to terrorist groups, the wrath of the US would have come down upon him, and is the main reason he destroyed them. That is why we can not find them, because they are not there. AND I will believe this until they find the stockpiles that were mentioned in the case for going to war. But the most ironic part of this is, is that NOW, the administration, and the "right" want more time to find the weapons, when he did not want to give the UN inspectors more time to do their job.

"Information is the currency of democracy"
-Thomas Jefferson-

Posted by: Jock at July 14, 2004 03:52 PM

I keep seeing people say if this movie is even half true, well it's not. Moore cuts out the stuff that would explain most of the movie, and manipulates the truth so that all you idiots believe everything he said. If you don't believe me, go back and review Moore's other movies. He's lied before. He changes the time lines, and makes outrageous accusations, and America believes him. I saw him on TV the Wednesday before the movie opened, and he admitted that the Saudi's leaving the country was proven wrong by Richard Clark. Clark admitted that he ordered the flights. Yet, 2 days later on Howard Stern, Moore goes right back to accusing Bush of this after he admitted he was wrong.

Posted by: kevin ward at July 14, 2004 04:40 PM

This message is to Michelle and anyone else who has been fooled by the propaganda of fanatical zeal. One of the biggest misunderstandings in conservative America right now is that disagreeing with the decisions of the administration is un-patriotic. Allow me to refresh some to the definition of democracy:

1. Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives.
2. A political or social unit that has such a government.
3. The common people, considered as the primary source of political power.
4. Majority rule.
5. The principles of social equality and respect for the individual within a community.

The government officials are elected by the people and for the people. If those officials are not doing what is in the best interest of the people according to the people, then the people not only have the right, but the obligation to speak up. Moore has done exactly that and good for him. Blindly following your party line or current administration is not democratic or patriotic, in fact, it is much closer to a totalitarian or dictatorship political system. Michael Moore did the right thing in expressing his opinion of our current president and his administration, if you dismiss it as un-patriotic from the get-go via the fact that it not in support of said administration, than I feel truly sorry for you. Whether you are liberal of conservative, you are doing the right thing showing your support or scorn for the job the administration is doing. Anything less is un-patriotic and un-American. It makes me said the things people will say out of fear and ignorance.

Posted by: Jeff T. at July 14, 2004 05:39 PM

Please give a great big welcome to CENTIGRADE 911, a new website billing tiself as a place for "Alternative views of Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 911." The site offers a wealth of worthy, informative links injecting some truth and rationality into the debate about Michael Moore and Fahrenheit 911. Make them part of your daily read.

People I cannot believe that you are being brainwashed by this communist. Everything out of his mouth is lies. He has nothing to back up any of this garbage. Things in this movie are either incorrect or taken out of context. Don't sit there and tell me that this world is not better off without Iraq serving as a safe haven for terrorists. If flipflopping Kerry is ever elected into office (God forbid) and we have another terrorist attack, I hope that every single person who voted for Kerry holds themselves accountable. Stop paying attention to the biggest propaganda campaign ever and start getting the facts, not what this slob is spewing out of his big fat mouth. If Michael Moore really cares about Americans why doesn't he donate the proceeds of his movie to the families of the soldiers fighting for our freedom.

God Bless America

Posted by: CJ at July 14, 2004 10:14 PM

All I have to say is that there have been no terroist attacks on the US since 911 and I believe the president is doing a good job at keeping our country safe. If we pull out of war in Iraq, I believe that the terroists will view us as being weak and will come here and attack us again....Also, reguarding Michael Moore's movie...here's a LIST of DECEITS.....

www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm

Posted by: Leah at July 15, 2004 02:29 AM

Just like james watkins, I researched this movie, and found out that almost everything in this movie is true.
Before I saw this movie, I had liked Bush, And not trusted Moore. But after seeing it and proofed the facts, my belifs have completly switched directions.
I feel sorry for all you people just blindly following Bush and saying (without even seeing it) that F9/11 is all lies. When I was a younger, I grew up thinking that the president knew what was good for America and would always do the right thing. Now, i realise how people can be lied to. I think Bush is doing to America, the same thing Nero did to Rome. Burning it to the ground. Don't you think you owe it to this country's founding fathers to at least question if Bush is doing the right thing for America?
If being Un-Patriotic means wondering if our leader might not be doing whats best for the American people, but whats best for himself, and being Un-American means exposing the truth, than charge me and Moore with Treason.

P.S. NO ONE DIED WHEN CLINTON LIED

Posted by: Jim at July 15, 2004 03:12 AM

Michael Moore is an oaf and a liar, but he cannot easily be dismissed. His technique is to simply issue one bald-faced lie after another, hoping to convince enough people who are too lazy too think critically about what he's saying. The technique was quite effective in Germany during the late 1930s and the murder of millions of Jews and Gypsies was the result.

I continue to be amazed how otherwise intelligent people can be made to believe things that a simple review of the facts would prove to be wrong. Perhaps the 'idiot Americans' to which Michael Moore has repeatedly referred are those that believe his lies and are willing to pay $8.00 each to watch them for two hours.

Posted by: Mike Morgan at July 15, 2004 06:01 AM

After watching the film I knew it had to be slanted. After all, we heard only one side of the "story". However, I'm still wondering why Bush and his administration hasn't come out and defended itself.

We need to remember that it is American to be skeptical. We have the RIGHT (unlike the Iraqis) to question our government. I also think we have the right to answers.

Personally attacking people for their political views doesn't help anything. If you are pro Bush, and want to convince others of your political views, then you should watch the movie and help us see the errors in the film. I don't think that anyone wants a scandalous president in office, so if you can convince us that he is honorable, then please do so.

Posted by: Jennifer at July 15, 2004 10:43 AM

Mike Morgan, How can you say he's a liar without researching. This is just what I was talking about. You have such a closed mind that you won't even be open to the POSSIBILITY that what Moore is saying is true. I am Republican and have liked Bush. I was open-minded enough to see what the other side has to say. I didn't dismiss it right away like Mike Morgan. If Mike Morgan will blindly follow Bush, and automaticly dismiss Moore, Than he is acting just like his "idiot Americans" but in Bush's favor.

Posted by: Jim at July 15, 2004 02:00 PM

www.moorewatch.com. Check it out if you want some truth. For example, quotes were cut short through editing, leaving them to imply the opposite of what was said. As a film student, I can tell you just how easy that is. And yeah, Bush read to children for 7 minutes after the first impact, but living in NYC at the time, I can tell you that EVERYONE thought it was a small-craft accident, not an attack. 7 minutes is not that long. The moment it was confirmed it was an attack, Bush was notified and exited immediately. And guess what ... he then followed up on what he promised at ground zero. "The people who brought down these buildings will be hearing from all of us soon." Contrast that to the follow-up of the first attack in 1993.

Posted by: bill at July 15, 2004 03:00 PM

Granted that we have not had a major terror attack since 9-11, but certainly it is not because of Bush. Do you people realize that Al Queda is already walking among us!? Terrorist are quite versed in the art of guerilla warfare. Like any other discipline it is an art. These extremist are following Sun Tzu war principles to the "T". Tzu preaches that there is a time to fight and a time not too. That is why we have not experienced an attack. With the increased vigilance of our nation, they do not see a window of opportunity, but this does not negated the fact that they will attack sooner or later. This is a disconcerting truth. In addition, the most valuable asset that Tzu states is patience. As in a game of chess, you must draw your lines mentally and then formulate an attack. The administration has already confirmed that it is not a question of "if" but "when" another attack will occur. No matter who is in the White House it is almost a mathematical certainty that these extremist will attack again and again. The main principles of War are never to under estimate your enemy, and secondly, only attack the enemy when the enemy does not expect it. The only way to perfome this action, is through covert operations done by law enforemcent, the gain would be the element of suprise and most importantly intellegence. If the enemy is far away and challenges you to do battle, he wants you to advance. Sadly to say that this administration, failed to follow these two tenets of war. The administration grossly under estimated Iraq in suggesting "the people would throw candy and flowers at the feet" of an invading army. Follwinig this flawed theory, has only left our military incapacitated with no alternatives or recources. Second, attacking countries with no direct link to Al Queda only embolden the organization both in numbers and resolve. Al Queda knew that they would not have to recruit, but that the US would recruit for them. There is a quote that best summerizes this, " only an Arab can conqueor and Arab" the opposite of this only united the entire Arab region. I can only assume that it played right into their hands. Of course the US has won wars in foreign lands, i.e. Germany and Japan. These two conflicts are not comparable to Iraq, or Al Queda.; first, Nazi Germany for instance, whether we like it or not did have commonalities with the U.S. They were predominantly a "white" nation as was the U.S.; they were industrial; and most importantly, the largest ethnicity in the U.S are German Americans. The composite of these variables would make enforcing subjugation more attainable. In the case of Japan, the Japan culture embraces the concept of defeat. The defeated will honor the victor, stated by the Codes of the Samurai. With this in mind, one can surmise that defeating the extremist will not be an easy venture. The Islamic culture does not value defeat, but only revenge. The more you win, the more they will fight. This administration again, misunderstood the enemy. Sun Tzu best summarizes this by stating, "If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle." The ugly truth is that you can't force someone to be vulnerable. You can, however, sometimes persuade them to weaken themselves. If you can't get them to weaken themselves, and you decide to attack them anyway, be prepared for a long war. This is where war was not the right action to take. With an enemy that has no country, and is virtually a shadow, Law enforcement and covert operations are the only way to defeat an unseen enemy. Gathering intelligence is the only way to have understood the enemy, and protecting our homeland through proactivity, was our best defense. The result of our actions in Iraq, make these less attainable. Intelligence only works with global cooperation, which our allies have been split due to Bush's arogance, proven by the gain in animosity towards France and Germany. In the case of proactivity, our borders are not safe, nor do are first responders have the nessacery resources to thwart an attacker. We are spending our entire resources on a country that had no direct linkage to our enemy because the " Just in case factor" which was fed to the American people. It is more logical to invest our resources in our own country if we know the enemy is here and an attack is inevitable. We would have been much better off in enhancing our technology, and giving our law enforcement agencies the proper resources to gather intelligence. i.e. recruiting more men and women in law enforcement, more airport screeners, developing better technology for our intelligence agencies, and giving our first responders the necessary equipment to aid in a disaster when and I mean when an attack occurs. What it all boils down too is BUSH BLEW IT!

Posted by: Jock at July 15, 2004 03:39 PM

Americans absolutely amaze me sometimes. I mean if you can sit there and tell me that you don't believe that Saddam had WMDs then you're delusional. He was a mad man and THANK GOD, the President acted when others lacked the courage!

#1. Bush has fought 2 wars here and won them both with less casulties than any war in history.
#2. Bush has turned recession into economic growth in very short time even when 9/11.
#3. Since, 9/11 there have not been any more successful terrorists attacks, even though we have been over in their backyard kicking the crap out of them!

HUUUUUUM?? Let's see here, kicking terrorists butt, better economy, safer country... yeah let's get rid of him today! DUH!!

Posted by: Olan Carder at July 15, 2004 04:03 PM

To those of you who say that Michael Moore's movie had convincing footage, let me say that in this modern age you have cameras and paper trails just about everywhere. A Republican could find footage about 9/11 and the war in Iraq that would make President Bush look like a saint. Any flimmaker with the right access could make just about any argument about any political issue. And because there is so much material to choose from [much of which is at least somewhat false] one must take what they're give in perspective.

Posted by: Jordan Jones at July 15, 2004 04:06 PM

Olan Carder, Those wars are not over, or have you not seen the news or casualty list lately! How can you win against an ideology! HUMMMM let me see, YOU CAN'T

Posted by: Jock at July 15, 2004 04:13 PM

All I can say is at least the movie got people asking questions (Most of us anyway). Anyone who says the movie is full of lies is as guilty as anyone who says it's all truth. The fact is, unless we are leading OURSELVES we are being MISLED! Accept NOTHING, question EVERYTHING.

P.S. Best Movie Ever:-)

Posted by: Anitra at July 15, 2004 04:29 PM

So what is it we have here, exactly? With thousands upon thousands of opinions out there, we find it not only satisfactory but natural to fall into two groups, aptly named right and left. Why is it that no one can attempt a realization of our "melting pot" of a country? Someone seems to have decided that there are only two opinons to choose from, and if you happen to be on the left, then the right is wrong (no pun intended) and if you're on the right, then the left is wrong. I'm glad that there is no room for discussion anymore... with school, highway, and national violence poliferating this country at the rate it is maybe we'll kill each other off before this beautiful country is completely consumed by our decadence and waste and we are forced to take more and more from those not willing to give to us. Through following world news lately, we Americans do not deserve the power and freedom that out forefathers intended us to have. Discussion is dead. Long live hatred and violence.

Signed,
Tired of it all.

Posted by: Stymied at July 15, 2004 04:56 PM

The dignity of human life has suffered in Iraq.
1,000 American troops lost forever. America's heart is broken.
It reminds me of a summer in New York City before Giuliani was mayor and the homicide rate dropped down.

Rudy for President

Posted by: Queens, NY at July 15, 2004 06:10 PM

To address two of the responses to my post:

1) I did not call Michael Moore a liar without researching it, nor am I closed-minded or following Bush blindly. There are a number of credible sources to which you can turn to determine the truth of Moore's allegations. An excellent one will be published by Dave Kopel and can be found at http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm. Further, there are some things that bother me about the Bush administration, such as search warrants that can be kept secret for 90 days, holding people without charging them, etc., so I'm not following anyone blindly.

2) Another individual asked why Bush has not defended himself. Exactly how would he do that? Should he address the American people from the Oval Office with a point-by-point refutation of the lies in Moore's film? That would be a highly inappropriate use of a Presidential address IMHO. Could he possibly get his points across in the 10-second sound bites that the media would give him? Should he write an op-ed for the NY Times?

If someone lied about you for two hours and millions of people had heard the lie, how would you defend yourself?

Posted by: Mike Morgan at July 15, 2004 07:03 PM

this movie is true 100% maybe your dady can help you find a new job after 11-2-004

Posted by: tim mulholland at July 15, 2004 07:12 PM

The Bush lovers remain in denial and this time choose to use Moore as their whipping boy in another spin on reality. Homeland insecurity a half billion dollar budget deficit, record high trade deficit, rising interest rates, outsourcing of American jobs overseas, high unemployment, overcommitted and mis-allocated military forces (we're in 134 countries), nearly 1000 American and another 1000 coalition troops killed, over 10,000 innocent Iraqi's killed, 7000 coalition forces wounded, another 10,000 returned from the war due to "mental" disorders, the true 9/11 villain Bin Laden is still loose, North Korea developing nuclear weapons and a delivery system while Bush watches, and I could just go on. Those self-annointed patriots out there that hate everyone that challenges Bush and his administration should be responding to these emails from their post in Iraq and Afghanistan. The Army is having difficulty meeting recruitment quotas! Read the declassified Presidential Daily Briefing (PDB) titled "Bin Laden to Strike in US). Go back through newspaper and video archives and the trail of Bush's lies are there, from his cocaine use, alcoholism, draft dodging, DUI's, through his lies about Nigerian aluminum tubes and weapons of mass destruction. The Bush lovers can now attack my truth instead of Moore's. In my opinion, Moore left way too much incriminating evidence against Bush out of the movie. But then, had he tried to include it, the documentary might have lasted 10 hours instead of two.

Posted by: Joel at July 15, 2004 07:44 PM

To believe anyone blindly is unpatriotic. It is the duty of every citizen to question the leadership of their government, especially , when the facts of engaging our solders to a war in a country that has nothing to do with 911. If you go back and read the background of the terrorists, 15 were Saudis , we did not go after Saudi Arabia and bomb them. Why not? Even the Saudi government admitted this week ,that some of their citizens are crossing their borders to fight in Iraq against the American forces. Why hasn't the Saudi's stopped them ? To be accepting of anything the leaders of a government says and does, invites the likes of another Hitler, and yes, such a thing can be made right here in the good ole U.S.A. Remember, Hitler wasn't an intelligent man, neither is our president ("c" average) but they both possessed manipulating skills. Be alert, don't allow yourself to be duped!!!

Posted by: buddbo1 at July 15, 2004 08:16 PM

To address a few of Joel's points:

Record high trade deficit: how did Bush cause that?

Rising interest rates: rising slightly after their lowest point in more than 40 years.

We're in 134 countries: about the same number we were in under Bill Clinton.

Nearly 1000 American and another 1000 coalition troops killed (liberating Iraq): we lost 6,000 taking a chunk of rock called Guadalcanal (Joel, that's an island in the Pacific Ocean).

North Korea developing nuclear weapons: which they have been doing for more than 10 years.

...while Bush watches: are you proposing that we invade North Korea?

As soon as present some truth for us to attack, we would be pleased to do so.

Posted by: Mike Morgan at July 15, 2004 08:32 PM

Dear Tim Mulholland: GW has a job until 1-20-05 (and probably until 1-20-09). :)

Posted by: Mike Morgan at July 15, 2004 08:34 PM

hey: where is it you are looking for the facts>? Do you question the think tank or the newspaper and its own biases? Check out what Moore actually portrays about the man who doesn't read or think for himself. See the film and then let's talk. M and M

Posted by: kax at July 15, 2004 09:21 PM

People Get to emotional over this crap. Everyone has a right to express there opinion, that is a privlige of living on the US. I think people made and still are making too big of an issue about 9/11. The "terrorist" got what they wanted, nation wide panic. Do I think is was right to invade Iraq? Sure, why not. I don't know all the information the president received on the subject, nobody does. I think Bush would have got slammed with any thing he desided to do. As for the Troops over seas and their families, if they didn't want to go to war, why did they sign up? The knew there was a chance of war, there always is a chance. So quite crying about it. Well there is my opinion. make of it what you will.

PS Would you have wanted to be in Bush's place these past few years so you could get slammed by the media for every little move you make. I think not, at least for most of you. I give credit to ALL the men that have been or will be President. You are all brave to stand up to the media and the people of the world and give us all your thoughts and beliefs.

Posted by: Eagle7796 at July 15, 2004 09:25 PM

i don't like michael moore and i don't like his movie. he took clips from random places and tried to make Bush look like the bad guy. i guess he did a good job, from the way everyone is saying how much they hate Bush after seeing the movie. i think that Bush is awesome. I think that he handled the terriorst attacks very well. If kerry had been president, would he have let the terriosts win? would he have not gone to war because it's not 'politically correct'? Oh and by the way, yes bush may not be book smart, but many many good leaders were not book smart..and a lot of the book smart ones were lacking in common sense ((**cough cough**clinton**cough cough**))
If you don't like Bush, fine that's your opinion. But don't attack my opinion about liking Bush.

Posted by: Kay at July 15, 2004 11:26 PM

I Just saw Far. 9/11 and thought it was a wonderful documentry. I hope people realize how much power we do not have as so-called "citizens" with scary s**t like the Patriot act. If one takes the time to read it, its a definite outrage!!! examples: TITLE II--"ENHANCED SURVEILLANCE PROCEDURES" --taken from the control act. I dont know about you all but I prefer to walk down the street not being video taped - "be brother will be watching" - SEC. 201. "AUTHORITY TO INTERCEPT WIRE, ORAL, AND ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATIONS RELATING TO TERRORISM". (yeah, great--but how broad is the definition of terrorism???) SEC. 212. "EMERGENCY DISCLOSURE OF ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATIONS TO PROTECT LIFE AND LIMB."---(what the hell is that? life and limb???)`Sec. 2703. "Required disclosure of customer communications or records--(better watch what you say on the old mobile or home phone.)
SEC. 101. "COUNTERTERRORISM FUND". More moola going to the wrong place!!! SEC. 103. "INCREASED FUNDING FOR THE TECHNICAL SUPPORT CENTER AT THE FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION". "to help meet the demands for activities to combat terrorism and support and enhance the technical support and tactical operations of the FBI, $200,000,000 for each of the fiscal years 2002, 2003, and 2004." (do you think we could use that money for something better???) Anyway...lots more, but I wont bore you to death. I do believe this one should have been scrutinized a little better, before getting the approval. But maybe thats just me. link to check out if you have a minute-- http://wwwaclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=12126&c=207

I also hope you all are aware of the latest control act!!!
By Charles Lewis and Adam Mayle
(WASHINGTON, Feb. 7, 2003) -- "The Bush Administration is preparing a bold, comprehensive sequel to the USA Patriot Act passed in the wake of September 11, 2001, which will give the government broad, sweeping new powers to increase domestic intelligence-gathering, surveillance and law enforcement prerogatives, and simultaneously decrease judicial review and public access to information."
What to do? What to do? Stand up and get involved!!!
one less vote, means one less person who really cares about TRUE FREEDOM and CIVIL RIGHTS!!!
There may be only 2 crappy candidates, that have a real shot, but for god sake pick one! Show you care about your rights and freedom!!!!

Posted by: DMAN at July 16, 2004 01:42 AM

I take it none of yall have seen them kneel to the mecca, the mecca is in Saudi land. If we were to go after the Sauds we would be fighting a United Arab front. Moore needs to do less fiction writing and more history and cultural reading and thinking. Use your head for something more than a towelrack there Michael. As for truth of the movie, maybe , from a certain point of view, right Obi.

Posted by: Athos at July 16, 2004 06:28 AM

i thought fahrenheit 9/11 was an impressive documentary and upon researching many of the facts layed out by Moore, I was convinced Bush was a fraud, a liar, and an incompetent president. He invaded Iraq for his own personal gains, and furthermore he isnt protecting Americans or the world for that matter either. I was shocked to find out he had connections w/ the Bin Laden family, and even let them leave back to their country 2 days after 9/11 without even questioning them! Now how can you say hes a good president? He cant even take care of domestic issues. The other day in my class, a kid was spewing about how great Bush was cause he got back 1,000 jobs..blah blah.. but my teacher shut him up by telling him that was hardly enough for the 3 million jobs that HE LOST. I mean really people, the only thing that Bush has succeeded in doing is...oh wait thats right he hasnt succeeded in doing a damn thing.

Hes taking away affirmative action rights but so far hes one of the individuals who has received the most affirmative action...come on, the man got into Yale w/ a 2.5 GPA, became governor of Texas and President of the United States w/ very little political experience. I'd say hes a lucky man, and he hasnt done anything for us. Im not a huge Kerry supporter, but I think at this point anyone is better than Bush. VOTE KERRY 2004, for a better America for all of us!

Posted by: mahlet at July 16, 2004 10:15 AM

It is necessary for the leader of America to be dynamic. Someone who is WELL SEASONED. Someone who is willing to ACCEPT other points of view. Someone who is FIRM. Someone who READS. Someone who understands REAL ISSUES. Someone who DOESN'T THINK THAT HE WAS APPOINTED BY GOD.

Oh one more thing. There's a couple people in here who need a history lesson. Hint: Why did we get involved in WW 1 and 2??? If you look it up you will see that history will tell that we (America) were isolationists. Isolationists. We didn't want to get involved in either war until we were brought into them. Europe probably would have crumbled, yes, but FDR wasn't going to a thing about it. I'm sure you would be saying he was a coward too, or would you?

Peace.

Posted by: Gmonet at July 16, 2004 01:00 PM

America - 1% of the wealth in this country run this country. Why is it so hard to understand this? If you are a poor or middle income family in this country, Bush is using fear of terrorists to get your vote. Yes america has enemies, but they are Bushes creation! Stand up and take your freedom back, before it is gone. Anyone making less than $149,000 per year shouldn,t be supporting BUSH. If you make less than the 149K, you won't recieve any breaks from Dubya's tax plans. Be patriotic, protect your freedom and our constitution from oil hungry, power freak business men who don't know you or care about you and your family!

Posted by: PATRIOT at July 16, 2004 01:23 PM

Back at you Mike Morgan. Do you remember Dubya's first international crisis which occured in the first weeks of his administration? The Chinese forced down our spy plane and held the crew prisoner. Weeks later after the Chinese recovered sensitive files and reverse-engineered the hardware, they trashed the plane, released the prisoners but charged the US $1,000,000 for room and board, and forced the US to have the Russians recover the remnants of the plane. What was Dubya's response? He gave China "Most Favored Nation" trading status. Mike, can you say "record trade deficits"? Here's another: Just prior to the illegal invasion of Iraq, it was discovered that many of the bio-chem protective masks were faulty but got mixed up with the good ones. While some of the bad masks were found, approximately 64,000 of the faulty ones were unaccounted for. Now, either Bush sent our troops to Iraq knowing in advance that there were no weapons of mass destruction or he decided his need to take out Saddam was greater than the lives to be lost with faulty masks. Which is it?I could go on, but trying to respond with facts
to the Limbaugh dittoheads would take up too much space. Just go see Moore's movie. While it lacks many issues I would have addressed, it paints an otherwise accurate portrayal of the failings of Bush, both as a president and human being.

Posted by: Joel at July 16, 2004 01:33 PM

If you support Bush please give me at least one reason why, other than comparing him to what you think Kerry would have done after 911. So far I don't think any of the comments made by Bush supporters have displayed a single reason why he is a good president. I can be persuaded if I hear a logical argument, in fact I want to hear about the good things Bush has done. The only problem is you're too busy defending Bush's War to explain how he has help at least 50% of this country. Otherwise, all the things you say about Bush add to the case that he has split this nation like no other time since the civil war.

Posted by: reason at July 16, 2004 01:59 PM

I just dont understand the people who still support Bush after knowing that this war on Iraq is based on MONEY. Trying to get Bush and his little friends RIcher while young soldiers risk their lives and hundreds of innocent lives are killed!!! This whole movie showed that all those innocent lives that died in this war was due to the greedy politicians and businessmen !! why the hell did we invade Iraq ?? They had nothing to do with 9/11, Bush just decieved the American people into thinking that Iraq was to blame. Bush is working with the enemy here .. he worked with bin laden's family !!?! Osama is the one responsible for 9/11 and yet we are not even working to capture him, instead we are trying to contain Iraq !! >. what the hell is going on ?!?.. Bush lied and betrayed the American people, and brought us into a war that was unjustifiable and absolutely unnecessary ! Some of you may think that im unpatriotic and against america but YOu are DEad wrong. IF you support a man who decieved AMERICa and is willing to risk the lives of innocent american soldiers in order obtain his own selfish needs, WHO is the UNPatriotic ONE??? WHy are people still supporting BUSH when all he has done was lie, and manipulate the AMErican PEOple !! ..

Posted by: REDD at July 16, 2004 02:15 PM

Moore is a player hater. The Bush Family are great Americans who create or at least try to create corperations which create jobs and prosperity. They partcipate in the political arena and are great role models to emulate. If George W. Bush was fated to lead our country against the evil-doers, we should thank God we have a man of courage and fortitude. Life is not always a grey area. In some rare instances their is black and white. In our case America is right in its war against terror and if Moore and the oil grubbing French don't like it so be it.
God Bless the Bush Family

Posted by: Queens, NY at July 16, 2004 02:16 PM

Olan Carder, I noticed your 3 reasons for supporting Bush. They seem to make sense. Please give me more information, i.e. how exactly are we kicking terrorists' butts? Seems to me we kicked Iraq's butts and innocent civilians butts, but then again the terrorist are also kicking Iraq's butts and innocent civilians butts, so I am confused on your butt kicking point. Also, I am no economist so please explain to me what "economic growth" means to you and how you you feel we are achieving that through Bush's policies. As for your point on no attacks since 911, well that might be your best point so far. But keep in mind that we had the intelligence to possibly hinder the terrorists threat before 911, but the Bush administration wasn't able or willing to put the pieces together. I am interested in knowledge and facts, not persuading people to believe what I do. I am actually tired of being so liberal minded, so conservatives please tell me something interesting. I'll listen.

Posted by: reason at July 16, 2004 02:38 PM

Hello Joel: I agree that China should not have "Most Favored Nation" trade status (the name was changed to "Normal Trade Relations" in 1998. However, two points for your consideration: a) China has been granted NTR status since 1980, and so pinning our trade deficit on Bush because China has NTR status doesn't seem to hold water; and b) NTR is the norm for virtually all countries on earth. Only a few nations don't have NTR status, such as Cuba, North Korea, etc.

With regard to the faulty gas masks, government auditors found gas mask defects in 1994, 1997, 1998 and 1999. I'm not saying you're wrong about the allegation you make, but the military was replacing defective masks back in late 2002, well before the invasion of Iraq.

With regard to Fahrenheit 9/11 painting an accurate portrayal of the failings of Bush, I would suggest that you read a good critique of the movie rather than accept what Moore says at face value. Moore has taken so many things out of context and lied about so many other things in the film that his piece cannot be taken seriously. While there are a number of things that are troubling about the Bush administration that Moore could have discussed, Moore's hatred of Bush and his complete lack of even a pretense of objectivity makes his film worthless.

Posted by: Mike Morgan at July 16, 2004 04:12 PM

I am glad to have had a second showing, and strongly recommend it. There is so much detail in the film, a lot to take in and digest.

After the first viewing, I was a bit overwhelmed because some of the video had me and everyone else in tears. And there were also moments of unbridled hilarity. It's unusual for a film to elicit powerful laughs and deep sorrow in one big dose. I came away from the second viewing with a sense of more objectivity and less editorial manipulation by Michael Moore than I had first thought. He has his own potent agenda and cinematic inflection, but during the second viewing I was less concerned with his political views and more keenly interested in just attending to people speaking in their own voices and words. And one of the most revelatory aspects of the film has to be its selections of video footage that no U.S. media outlet has had the guts or common sense to show. I mean unfiltered scenes of the war itself, cameras accompanying our soldiers doing their actual jobs in Iraq, the unbearable personal cost of it and immense sacrifice of lives and limbs. Two soldiers are standing by a palm tree, a bomb goes off and one just disappears. Glimpses into the homes of Iraqi and American families who lost children to the war; a multiplicity of statements from people in the military and from potential recruits back home and the lack of emotion from our leaders in govt. Most were very smug, The living price of war is so painfully evident in this film that it goes well beyond any agenda to something that reaches deep into the hearts of everyone regardless of political outlook. So I think that whatever one's "affiliation" might be, every American should see this film because there is a LOT of undoctored material available for processing with your own intellect and moral sensibility. As for Michael Moore, my take is that he has courage of convictions, is a patriot in the truest sense, and supports our troops as much as anyone. And is just tired of the American people constantly being manipulated and lied to..

I love my country even though I may not agree with a lot of things, but I do have to say our president and our Govt does scare me… they all have their own agenda that seems to be nothing more than greed at any cost, as long as it’s no cost to them.

Ya gotta see the movie……

Posted by: sandy at July 16, 2004 05:21 PM

To Jim who posted on 7/15... you wrote,

"Michael Moore is an oaf and a liar, but he cannot easily be dismissed. His technique is to simply issue one bald-faced lie after another, hoping to convince enough people who are too lazy too think critically about what he's saying. The technique was quite effective in Germany during the late 1930s and the murder of millions of Jews and Gypsies was the result.

I continue to be amazed how otherwise intelligent people can be made to believe things that a simple review of the facts would prove to be wrong. Perhaps the 'idiot Americans' to which Michael Moore has repeatedly referred are those that believe his lies and are willing to pay $8.00 each to watch them for two hours"

If you consider yourself intelligent than you would realize that the Bush-Cheney camp are doing the exact things you accuse Moore of, specifically where you state, "His technique is to simply issue one bald-faced lie after another, hoping to convince enough people who are too lazy too think critically about what he's saying. The technique was quite effective."

Please tell me how Mr. Bush is not doing this with the American people.

I am not supporting or defending Moore's views, but videotape don't lie my friend and most of his facts check out and have been by independent sources.

So if I can give you a bit of advice, stop being brainwashed by Bush-Cheney and learn to think for yourself. Those two are investing your tax dollars for their own personal return. I suppose you belive Kenneth Lay is innocent as well?

On behalf of who you refer to as an "idiot American."

Posted by: Kevin at July 17, 2004 01:00 AM

Liberal movies have no place in our society. Farenheit 9/11 should be banned, because it is a worthless piece of propaganda. People do not need to see this movie, because it promotes the democratic party, I strongly believe that Michael Moore worships Satan on a daily basis. Let's all stand up for God and President Bush.

Posted by: henryclay at July 17, 2004 09:19 AM

Dear Mike Morgan,

How much is Bush paying you to be his press secretary? It has to be at least six figures. I've never seen someone so adamently defend a point of view while at the same time so blindly close their eyes to the obvious.

The war was not about terrorism.

This war in Iraq is not over.

Iraq and America are even less safe now because of destabilization.

Your children will be paying the bill for this fiasco for years to come. (Are you happy about that)?

Yet Republicans continue to stand on their soap boxes spewing the same tired rhetoric. This country will come together when Bush is out of office once and for all!!!

Posted by: Douglas Betts at July 17, 2004 10:12 AM

Posted by: monica at July 12, 2004 02:38 PM

You can believe 411 or you can believe sombody murdered 3000 Americans on Sept 11th.
Would Kerry just set back and let them get away with it? He most likely would. Kerry would have been afraid to make a move without world approval.
WE have had to save the world twice before with American blood. Euorpe and now Americans seems to have fogotten that. Bush has started us on the right track towards world peace. May God help those that attack our country again. We can not be soft.

I just wanted to respond to this idiot's post(a little late probably). So have we caught bin Laden yet? No. Have we put up a good fight to get him. No again, we sent a measly 11,000 troops to find him. As far as I'm concern, Mr. Bush (I refuse to call him President now) has let him get away with it. And how can you compair this to WWI/II (I'm assuming that's what you meant). Did YOU forget that we were fighting Germany, a nation hell bent on World domination. Now we're on that side of the fence. How can you even compair the two. And are you implying that the only way to world peace and through war; conqureing all nations who oppose our vision as to what government should be. Oh yeah, about that cute little remark about Bush getting us on the right track to world peace. Did you know he broke just about every international treaty we had. Doesn't sound like he wants world peace, he just want to do whatever he wants, whenever he wants, just like a little kid. And you are just a puppet.

P.S. It's 9/11, not 411. 411 is the number you call for information. Pawn.

Posted by: Jirai at July 17, 2004 10:49 PM

Mr. Moore is evil because he has to know the facts do not support the claims he makes in his film. This is why he refuses to go on talk radio and be confronted on the claims he makes in his film. Mr. Moore's film is a desperate attempt to use anti-american propaganda to sway an election. Mr. Moore, like the terrorists who swayed the election in Spain, forgets that unlike the voting public in Spain, Americans are not stupid. Following our President's re-election, we all can't wait to hear Mr. Moore's sour grapes conspiracy theory to explain why our President was re-elected. We all know why our President will be re-elected and will have a good time laughing at Mr. Moore whose idiocy always hit a new low.

Posted by: David at July 18, 2004 06:43 PM

The American public love Mr.Bush for taking the tuff action required to fight the terrorists!

So... Why did he attack Iraq??? Since now it is official no link exists with Al Qaeda? And that non ever existed, and they had NOTHING to do with 9/11?

If we are going after terrorists why don't we GO AFTER THEM!! Why waste time, money, and lives in "a war of choice".

The USA is NOT soft. It never has been. It has taken the tuff road in history.

We sold weapons to Iran and Iraq and thousands of other countries. We have invaded many a country and still benefit from those wars and invasions.

Perhaps we have been too hard, too tuff, too self-centered, too greedy, too arrogant!

If we are going to get terrorists... let do it with dignity, care, honesty, and without acting like thugs and terrorists ourselves!

Shame on Bush for not checking our own history, for starting a war in a country that was NOT NECESSARY, and for not going AFTER Al Qaeda.

We had 9/11 and we now have a "new frontline" in the war on terror. A front line created by Bush for his own self indulgence.

Bush supports should be forced to living in Iraq for 6 months to smell the blood of a "war of choice". The Japs started "a war of choice" in 1941. How did that go for them?

Posted by: tom at July 19, 2004 06:05 AM

if you would like to view the facts that back up this controversial documentary, please visit www.michaelmoore.com. The activist has provided countless references to EVERY statement he makes in the film. JUST GO! SEE FOR YOURSELF! THERE IS MORE THAN JUST ONE SECTION OF REFERENCES. STOP SAYING TO YOURSELF THAT ALL THIS IS BULLSHIT.

THE MAN IS CREDIBLE IN MY BOOK.

Posted by: Miranda at July 19, 2004 09:32 AM

Miranda, just because someone gives references to his point doesn't mean he's telling the truth. I checked out his website and the references there don't even make much sense. You may think he's credible, but the facts say differently. Most of the "facts" in the movie have already been proven wrong (eg: it was Clark who spirited the Suadis out of the US after 9/11 and he admits it).
The movie contradicts itself everywhere. In one part it says Saddam never threatened the US. Later it says he threatened to kill Bush Sn. I'm sure most people won't notice the contradictions because it's very craftily done. I must commend Moore on disguising a work of propaganda as a "documentary." He certainly has a talent for deception.

As the Vanity Fair reviewer said: "Fahrenheit 9/11 is a sinister exercise in moral frivolity, crudely disguised as an exercise in seriousness. It is also a spectacle of abject political cowardice masking itself as a demonstration of 'dissenting' bravery."

If you want to read the rest of the review with all of the many contradictions and lies in the movie, go to the link below or use this URL: http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723

It's sad, but ignorant and lazy people will believe what Moore says and won't really care what the truth is or have any desire to try to find the truth. It's much easier to just sit back and let nuts like that fill your mind with garbage.

Posted by: Les Moore at July 19, 2004 04:58 PM

I can almost feel so sorry for Bush supporters. He talks about his God and some day he will have to answer to him!!! He should be impeached. I pray Kerry/Edwards will do this.

Posted by: gammy at July 19, 2004 05:18 PM

We apologize for gammy. He's not supposed to be using the computer. We're still getting him back onto solid foods. Wish him luck, ok? A frontal lobotomy is a long recovery.

Posted by: gammy's nurse at July 19, 2004 08:26 PM

I havn't seen 911 yet as I can't be in a movie house due to my disability but I'll buy it as soon as it comes out on DVD.
Bush is like no other president that I've ever seen, and I've seen quite a few of them having been born in 1919. He's trying to make this country into a theocracy with his frequent references vis a vis "Jesus is my political advisor," or words to that effect. And his prayers before cabinet meetings. It should be amply clear to anyone who uses their head for something other than a hatrack, how bad it is from our experiences with the Arab world how the mixture of religion and state doesn't work. Bush, like many before him, in times past, have tried to put God into the Constitution. May all so inclined, continue to fail to do so.

R. E. Lyon

Posted by: Royal Lyon at July 19, 2004 09:03 PM

Kevin wrote (excerpted): "I am not supporting or defending Moore's views, but videotape don't lie my friend and most of his facts check out and have been by independent sources. So if I can give you a bit of advice, stop being brainwashed by Bush-Cheney and learn to think for yourself."

Some comments and questions for you Kevin:

1) Videotape, like other facts, can certainly be used to lie if they are intentionally taken out of context. Consider the following: a) the Boston Strangler killed 11 women between June 14, 1962 and January 4, 1964; b) John Kerry lived much of his life in the Boston area; c) not long after the Boston Strangler killed his last victim, John Kerry left the United States for an extended stay abroad; d) the Boston Strangler has never been found.

If I was to present only those facts to someone who knew nothing more than that, the obvious inference would be that I was implying that Kerry was the Boston Strangler, something that clearly is not true. However, by presenting only certain facts and not others, many can be manipulated into believing another's agenda.

2) What are the independent sources that have verified Moore's facts?

3) Is it possible that someone can disagree with you and not be brainwashed?

Posted by: Mike Morgan at July 19, 2004 11:14 PM

Dear Douglas Betts:

To address some of your points:

1) I am not Bush's press secretary, I am blessed to make six figures and I am not blindly closing my eyes to obvious. Perhaps at some point you will admit that someone can disagree with you without being blind.

2) The current and past administration both believed that Iraq was a key sponsor of terrorism, Hussein was giving $25,000 to the family of each suicide bomber in Israel, Hussein gassed 5,000 Kurds, etc. Opinions may vary over whether or not the war was about terrorism, but Iraq under Hussein was clearly a key player in world terrorism.

3) Of course the war in Iraq is not over. Neither was World War II over for several years after we "won". For example, there were still insurgents in Germany that were launching attacks on Allied troops as late as 1948.

4) I am a bit stunned that someone would call the overthrow of a dictator who murdered hundreds of thousands of his own people "destabilization". Apparently unlike you, I believe that when brutal tyrants are overthrown and people are given freedom, that makes things more stable.

5) If Iraq becomes a democracy and its people no longer have to live under a brutal tyrant, I will be happy to have paid for that.

Posted by: Mike Morgan at July 19, 2004 11:26 PM

I find it ironic that people are praying for John Kerry, the man who defies his own religion every time he steps on to the Senate floor (for the 15% of the time he's there). It's not surprising how many of you are eating up Michael Moore's "documentary", which is time and again refuted by so many of the people he cites and interviews in the movie. It's funny how Michael Moore is declared a true American patriot while he wanders around Europe calling Americans "the stupidest people on the planet." Well, he certainly has the ticket sales to prove it. To all of you, I have just one word to say: SHEEP! I may make a documentary of my own detailing the dark side of John Kerry; the difference between my flick and Moore's is that it would be backed by the facts. For those of you who don't wish to remain ignorant of John Kerry's true nature, visit Swift Boat Veterans for Truth as well as Vietnam Veterans Against John Kerry. You'll see hundreds of men who served with and commanded over John Kerry in Vietnam speak out against his self-serving, dishonest, and opportunistic nature. You'll learn how John Kerry turned Vietnam into Vietnam and robbed a generation of its heroes. You'll see why John Kerry is the reason why those soldiers died in vain. You'll laugh at the idea of John Kerry preaching about integrity. You'll see how John Kerry's lead in the investigation into Vietnam POW/MIA turned into one final betrayal for those still alive in Vietnam and how it brought billions of dollars in reconstruction contracts to Kerry's already wealthy Forbes cousin. And for those of you who are truly objective, take some time to seek out how many of these caricature assasinations on President Bush's integrity aren't backed up by the facts. To give you some examples, Iraq and Al Qaeda connections (such as providing safe harbor to Al Qaeda operatives such as Al-Zarqawi and 93 WTC mastermind Ramsi Youseff), Iraq seeking Uranium from Niger which is backed up by British Intelligence, support from nations such as Russia and Denmark who advised the U.S. that Iraq presented a significant WMD threat, so on and so forth. And for those of you who preach that we went at it alone, well, you're ignoring over 30 legitimate nations when you make that statement - nations such as Italy and Poland. I believe there are about 30,000 non-American troops in Iraq right now. Anybody who talks about Abu Ghraib and the Geneva Convention should familiarize themselves with the guidelines established in Geneva. Should you happen to do that, you'd learn that terrorists who do not wear the uniform or serve the interest of a nation are not protected under Geneva Rules. By the way, why weren't any of you howling for revenge after they decapitated Nick Berg or Paul Johnson? Why were you instead saying "Withdraw! Withdraw!" as if the most powerful nation on Earth is powerless against a network of Rogue terrorists whose numbers have dwindled since the Iraq War. Only Osama and his #2 man remain at the top of Al Qaeda now, but you didn't know that, did you? Is it so hard to understand that the American presence sucked so much of Al Qaeda's resources and fighters into a futile jihad in Iraq? Is it so hard to understand that when someone hates you enough to want you dead, finances those who try to kill you, repeatedly denies weapons inspectors and then give you his word that he's not pursuing WMD...is it so hard to see that as a threat? I certainly do. Call me a war-mongering if you will. Diplomacy will not work against an enemy who hates you so much that it'd blindly kill any one of us, from infant to elderyl, who it associates with Western Christianity. We saw it on 9/11 or have you forgotten? Why do you think Michael blacked out the powerful images of the Towers collapsing, relying instead on the sound effects. Because he knows how much of his audience HAS FORGOTTEN. For any of you who still have a soul, I should hope the sound of it made you remember why we took the offensive against every terrorist bed on the face of the Earth. To those of you who are so stubbornly ignorant and arrogant, I call you all damn fools. If you think there's no threat in the Middle East, go to Iran or Iraq under Saddam Hussein and wave an American flag and see what happens. You should be proud of how much good our troops have accomplished. A brutal murderer is out of power; a reign of terror has ended. Iraq is a democracy with schools and Universities. People can speak freely - a right you obviously take for granted when you burn your flags and undermine the soldiers who fight and die just so you can protest what they're fighting for. It's all lost on you because you hate the President for being firm in his convictions; for agreeing with the Bible in calling gays sinners and abortion murder. America is great because she is good, not because she is politically correct. Time and again, Americans have proven that we are not the self-serving imperialists we are so often accused of being, but so easily people forget. You should be ashamed of yourselves for undermining those still fighting in Iraq, for those who've died for a cause you declare to be in vain. Do the nation a favor and quit preaching about human rights because if you're not glad that Saddam is gone, then you're nothing more than a hypocrite - PERIOD! I won't stand idly by while you arrogant, ignorant, angry, venemous bastards try to turn Iraq into another Vietnam. This is my generation too, and I won't let you rob us of our heroes. The time has come for you to quit buying the dope which puts guns and suitcase nukes (that's right, Osama bought suitcase-sized nuclear weapons from a former Soviet General with money and 2 tons of heroin from his drug cartel) into Al Qaeda's hands. Quit shooting up and making yourself paranoid. Quit eating up these conspiracy theories and take some time to research your opinions. You have my word that if you do, you'll be offering President Bush a tearful apology. And if you're still full of venom, I've got bad news for you. I have faith in the good people of America - the silent majority. We'll dominate the polls and Bush will win - I swear it on my life, you won't steal this country with your hatist agenda.

Posted by: Ryan at July 19, 2004 11:57 PM

To Royal Lion:

I absolutely agree with you that video can be taken out context and there is no denying that Micahel Moore has put his own slant on the movie. I would say that portions of the movie are his opinion. However, the New York Times and Washington Post have both published articles verifying Micahel Moore's claims.

The Bush administration has filed nothing in the way of a libel and slander suit against Moore to defend their position. I believe a man in such a position of power would step up to the plate and disprove the allegations. I know that if false allegations were brought against me, I would defend myself to the bitter end. Especially with something as serious as this.

As many government documents are kept under lock and key, I think it would be possible for any of us to create what might be considered a biased piece based on our own best efforts at intelligence gathering.

You are absolutely entitled not to agree with me. That is what makes free speech vital.

It doesn't seem that you provided any commentary in support of Bush, and I, like many others are waiting patiently to see anything credible to be posted that support Bush and the effectiveness of his presidency and policies.

I consider myself to be very middle of the road when it comes to politics and my voting record will show that I have supported both sides of the arena on various issues.

George Bush is the most ineffective President we have had in my lifetime. This is not a Republican attack from a bleeding heart liberal. It is my own observation against this one individual and we can agree to disagree. I find no redeeming qualities in this man and would welcome a change in leadership.

Do I think John Kerry is the best man, absolutely not. Do I think John Kerry is better suited to be president, yes because there are only two choices other than not voting. I am taking the position of the lesser of two evils rather than outright Kerry support.

It is a shame that only the elite in this country have the power and backing to be President. I am sure there are perfectly competent people out there that could do a better job than either of these gentlemen.

If someone can provide a compelling reason why Bush deserves another 4 years in office, I'm all ears. But until I read something that makes sense and is credible. Personally, I feel we are less safe with him in power.

As an American I want to believe my president, listen to what he has to say, support his policies and support the decisions of our nation. I have tried very hard and in fact changed my mind towards Bush post 9/11. However, when the dust settled he was up to his old tricks and once again I formed a very negative impression of him and his administration.

What I see are lies, misrepresentations, diversions, scare tactics, venemous slams against anyone who speaks out against him, extreme religious influences and a loss of respect from our allies around the world. I know, most politicians lie... but Bush is the biggest violator so far. There's no room to challenge or debate this administration and it saddens me that our nation is so divided on this issue. To me it is crystal clear and scary what is going on in Washington and I feel bad for those of you out there that merely believe Bush because we are supposed to believe our president.

Posted by: Kevin at July 20, 2004 02:30 PM

"I am a bit stunned that someone would call the overthrow of a dictator who murdered hundreds of thousands of his own people "destabilization". Apparently unlike you, I believe that when brutal tyrants are overthrown and people are given freedom, that makes things more stable."

No, it makes things more stable when a country's own citizens rise up and take their freedom. For they worked and fought for it. It IS destabilizing when a country half way across the world comes and gives you your freedom and you didn't have to do anything for it.

"If Iraq becomes a democracy and its people no longer have to live under a brutal tyrant, I will be happy to have paid for that."

Unless you yourself are over there securing Iraqi citizen's freedom and dying in insurgent bomb attacks, you did not pay.

Posted by: Chris Palmertree at July 20, 2004 05:10 PM

Do you liberals think at all before you speak? It is amazing some of you have let this worthless piece of propaganda brainwash you at the speed of sound. If you've seen the "movie" I D-A-R-E you to go to the following websites and see for yourself just who the liar is. You liberals hate Bush so bad you can't even think straight. And for straight-thinking people like me, it's actually kind of funny to watch.

http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/
http://www.moorewatch.com/
http://www.moorelies.com/

Posted by: David at July 20, 2004 10:02 PM

well i couldnt have said it better my self Ryan. Truthfully unlike most of the dems, I actually care less about myself and more about how people "were" living in Iraq. We in America got it so good here and yet people here whine "boohoo our economy isnt good and we a losing soliers in Iraq" thats what comes from every dems mouth. We Americans take everything we have here for granted. We have the most multi-racial country. Why? cause everyone wants to live in America. I believe we have the most illegal alians than any other country. Maybe thats a reason why other countries hate us. Other countries think of us as whine babies. Like the iraqi country they used to just wish they could speak up against their leader. but that would be their death. they actually had a right to speak up against their president. you all cry how evil bush is. I tell you the iraqis would much rather have bush as their leader. you democrats are like a child who wants more and more and cries about not having enough. When there are other children that would just be happy with one toy. get my point? quit being a baby and think of other people than just yourself. I dont mean just think of the people in America but i mean think of the people in Iraq that actually need what you just want. I even tried to get into the army but i was rejected cause i had surgery. I just thank God for what i have. I am fine with our country. i would much rather live here than any other country and you all know you would too. I dont think any Americans are saying " I hate America so much that im going to Iraq" i would laugh if some one said that.

Posted by: Jeff Sosnowski at July 20, 2004 10:54 PM

Correction: Above was adressed to Mike Morgan, not Royal Lion.

Posted by: Kevin at July 21, 2004 01:10 AM

If we are talking facts, why don't you Bush lovers get at least one of your mis-guided arguments for supporting him right. I am so sick of hearing about the 3,000 Americans killed in the preventable 9/11 tragedy, when around half of those killed were actually citizens of dozens of other countries. Its tremendously insensitive to dismiss and use for a personal agenda the non-Americans that also lost their lives. Its akin to dismissing the three million non-Jewish Poles that died in concentration camps and "lumped" in but not identified as being part of the six million Jews killed by Hitler. Furthermore, the circus atomosphere created by the money-grubbing heirs of American casulties cheapened their sacrifice.

We'll probably never even get to the real failings which led to the attack since it became politicized by both parties and the Bush-Chaney puppet show refused to give sworn testimony. Chaney then had the audacity after the first draft report of the fact-finding committee to chide the report as incomplete because it lacked evidence he claimed to know but did not present in testimony. How incredible is that?

Bush supporters just cannot seem to be able to let go of the notion Iraq was not responsible for the twin towers destruction. There was more of a Rumsfeld & Chaney connection to Saddam than one between Saddam and bin Laden. Afterall, Rumsfeld and Chaney met with and provided biological weapon material to Saddam to use on Iranians, which he did (as well as his own people). Its well documented.

The timing of Bush's adventures into Iraq coincided with an election and followed very closely on the heels of the failed Operation Anaconda in which bin Laden, surrounded in the mountains of Afghanistan, was able to escape. Since bin Laden was from Saudi Arabia, striking terror from posts in Afghanistan but escaped to the mountains of Pakistan, why did Bush invade Iraq? Connect the dots!

If nothing else, Moore's 9/11 movie made me as disgusted towards the Democrats failure to force a debate on the need for war as Bush's and Blair's lies justifying it. The cowardice of our elected officials by failing to debate the need for war makes me sick as does their "sanitizing" the 9/11 report with anectdotal testimony by Bush and Chaney. Its becoming quite clear that Kerry nor Bush really have our interest at heart, but in the final analysis, I'd choose Kerry in a heartbeat over Bush. Bush has run this country like he has run his oil business, into the ground and ready to sell out to the highest bidder.

Posted by: Joel at July 21, 2004 01:11 AM

Mike Morgan,

Thank you for your commentary. I'm glad you were paying attention to me. In response let me reply with the following. Now that the dust has settled and we know based on every reliable source that WMD's have not been found on Iraqi soil what can we conclude? Initially Bush stated the reason to invade Iraq was WMD. Okay no WMD's now what? Remove a tyranical madman whose guilty of human rights abuses correct? Is that our reason for risking american lives? If we want to make that our argument now, what of the other 23 countries world wide that are guilty of the same human rights abuses? (Rowanda, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, North Korea to name a few). What's the difference between those nations and Iraq? Oil perhaps? For the lies that Bush has used to mislead us he shouldn't be celebrated or even applauded, he should be impeached!!!

Posted by: Douglas Betts at July 21, 2004 01:49 PM

I was a republican, I was a Bush supporter. Now I am independent and seriously anti-bush. I went to the movie thinking it was a pack of lies and walked out wondering if I had been mislead before I even went in. So I did some research and you know what, in every case so far the facts are still facts, they haven't miraculously changed.
Bush was a 'C' average student
Bush skipped a medical exam and was dropped from service (in the National Gaurd, here in America) when he should have been fighting in the war
Bush failed in most of his business ventures
I could go on and on. That is enough in my book to say that somebody is unworthy of the highest office of our country. We should be picking the best of the best to run our country, not some mediocre rich spoilt kid. "My daddy's the President!" La-dee-da! What a jack*ss?
Bush represents us. Is that what we want the world to see? A guy who can barely speak in public and has never achieved anything even remotely interesting in his life? Did you realize that Bush is the one and only president in the history of this country to have never published a single work of any kind? THE ONLY ONE, EVER! NOT EVEN ONE PAPER!
How the hell did our standards get so low? Are we really becoming trailer trash? The whole country?

As far as the movie goes, how do you twist the fact that the former CEO of Halliburton quit to become vise president, still holds stock in the company, and then the company gets awarded their largest contract ever, no bid, after he works so hard on shady evidence to invade Iraq? Did he ever really quit? Tell me how I can I make that story up with camera angles? To all you flat-worlder blind bush supporters who have never seen the movie. Grow a brain and think for yourselves.
Yes, it is slanted, no one said otherwise, but to call facts of public record flat out lies is just plane ignorant.

Posted by: Bill at July 21, 2004 05:51 PM

Is it just me or is Bush not only the worst ..but most despised President we ever had ?? The folks I talk to are ready for revolution !!

Posted by: Dave R at July 21, 2004 09:50 PM

Does anyone actually think that a film producer with a twisted opinion dealing with no proof or facts actually knows more (or anything) about the security and running of this Great Nation of ours...than the current President? Does M. Moore know more than everyone?

I would think that anyone with bucks and hollywood contacts could put out a movie about anything they wish...good or bad.

Yet should not most intelligent people do their OWN research...learn their own facts instead of taking the word of someone who has such hate in them?

It's a movie folks....just a movie bashing someone that I find steps up to the plate when others attack him...steps up to the plate when this COUNTRY is attacked. So glad he didn't say he would protect our interests then flip flop and sign us over to Iraq. So glad he didn't change his mind about our troops...and throw their medals over the wall and forget them, betray them. He did what needed to be done.

I mean...do you believe everything you read in the press, everything you see on TV, do you believe every movie you have seen?

Most everyone who went to see F 911....went there wanting to see the worst on Bush...they got it...they didn't get facts...they got hate.

Since when has Hollywood ever protected YOUR interests...since when has it started being oh so honest and factual?

Posted by: GreenEyes at July 22, 2004 05:31 AM

I would like to know where Michael Moore was during the Vietnam war? I don't know the answer to that, but I do know that he was not in Vietnam with President Bush fighting the VC. President Bush volunteered for service in Vietnam, he was wounded in action and was awarded the purple heart, and he saved the life of his fellow soldiers and was awarded the silver star. Meanwhile back in the United States, John Kerry was spending all of his time drinking and partying. His father managed to pull some strings and get him into the national guard so that he would not be drafted and be shipped out to Vietnam, John Kerry is a coward, plain and simple. Anyone who attacks our president is in league with Satan, although it was perfectly acceptable to attack Bill Clinton because he was a democrat, during the 1990s I drove around with a confederate bumber sticker on my truck, but when President Bush took office, I replaced that confederate bumper sticker with the American flag.

Posted by: henryclay at July 22, 2004 10:46 AM

Aynone who attacks this movie has A) never seen it, or B) gets all there news from right wing talk radio...probally B. IF YOU WANT TO STOP TERRORIST THAN STOP ACTING LIKE TERRORIST! Steping up to the plate does not mean that YOU HAVE TO GO TO WAR. WAR SOLVES NOTHING... Does anybody on this whole forum feel safer now that we have killed 11,000 civilans in Iraq? If you said yes your full of sh*t. Now we have there familys out for revenge....DOES IT REALLY SUPRISE ANYONE THAT MORE SOLDIERS (GOD REST THERE SOUL) HAVE BEEN KILLED SINCE "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" THAN BEFORE?

Posted by: joe at July 22, 2004 05:25 PM

Michael moore is very talented and is a good director. Many posting commenting that they believe this movie to be true and factual I recently saw lord of the rings the return of the king and i got to tell you if half of that movie is true well,I try to get my info from the three or four major news organizations and my entertainment from the movies.I am a wild and crazy guy.

Posted by: mike Republican at July 22, 2004 09:30 PM

Dear Chris Palmertree:

You wrote, "No, it makes things more stable when a country's own citizens rise up and take their freedom. For they worked and fought for it. It IS destabilizing when a country half way across the world comes and gives you your freedom and you didn't have to do anything for it."

Are you implying that we should not have freed France, Belgium, the Netherlands, etc. in World War II? I think those countries have been relatively stable since the Allies gave them their freedom by overthrowing a brutal tyrant. Haven't Germany and Japan been pretty stable during the last 59 years since we conquered them? Should France not have helped us during the Revolutionary War?

You wrote, "Unless you yourself are over there securing Iraqi citizen's freedom and dying in insurgent bomb attacks, you did not pay."

If you had read the post to which I was responding, my comment was directed to the individual who was referring to monetary payment for the war in Iraq.

Posted by: Mike Morgan at July 22, 2004 09:35 PM

boycottliberhollywood.com- this website lists all the deceits the movie has to offer. 59 to be exact and they are all there for you to read. Sorry. But I dont need to waste my time to see some garbage fake documentry to know its. I feel bad for anyone who actually thinks this B.S. "film" is real.

Posted by: Camo at July 22, 2004 11:27 PM

Dear Douglas Betts:

To address the points you've made:

1) If Bush should be impeached for the supposed "lies" surrounding Iraq's possession of WMDs, then you would have had to impeach Bill Clinton for the same thing, since he also believed that Iraq had WMDs. So did Tony Blair. And the French. And lots of other governments. Ask the 5,000 Kurds who were gassed years ago if Iraq had possessed WMDs at some point.

2) Our reason for risking American lives was never Iraq's human rights abuses, but rather because Iraq was directly involved in sponsoring terrorism against the United States; for example:

- The FBI's New York branch, which investigated the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center, concluded that Iraq was responsible for that attack.

- Documents have been found in Iraq that showed that Abdul Rahman Yasin, a key figure in the 1993 WTC bombing, was paid by the Iraqi government. Court documents show that Ramzi Yousef, another key figure in the attack, was an Iraqi intelligence agent.

- Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, who is credited with creating the plan for the 9/11 attacks, is also an Iraqi intelligence agent.

3) Saddam Hussein was paying the families of suicide bombers in Israel. While that does not represent support of terrorism directly against the US, it does represent support against an ally.

It's easy to sit back and say we haven't found any WMDs (actually we have found some) and assume that we never will. It's also easy to ignore Iraq's clear connection to terrorism against the United States, particularly when the major news media outlets won't discuss it. However, some honest research into Iraq's role in both WTC attacks might yield some interesting insights.

Posted by: Mike Morgan at July 23, 2004 04:24 AM

Hey Green Eyes, when are you and the other Bushies going to accept the fact that IRAQ DID NOT CAUSE 9/11. To say that Bush "stepped up to the plate when others attacked" falls into the "brainwashed" category. Look at the facts. Think for yourself. It was bin Laden that attacked. All together now, bin Laden! Even Wolfowitz said pursuing WMD in Iraq was a reason he could sell to the world as a reason to invade them. But, when Bush showed the intel to world leaders, they did not buy into it.

The so-called coalition forces of which 5 have just pulled out includes only the US, Brits and Poland as the major players. Poland is beholden to the US because in order to join NATO, which they very much wanted to do, they needed to upgrade their air fleet. The Bush admininstration entered into a zero interest sales agreement to sell them fighter jets to comply with NATO requirements. I'm sure most of that debt will somehow be forgiven. An overwhelming majority of Poles are against Poland's participation in the Iraq occupation.

As far as the Brits are concerned, Tony Blair lied to his country's citizens as did Bush. Let Britan match our 130,000 troops there if he is so committed to his war. Instead, he is talking about reducing the British military by 15,000 troops while we are flirting with a draft reinstatement just to maintain our hold there.

I heard that Moore is working on a similar 9/11 documentary but in Britain against Tony Blair. I hope he pulls that one off too as Blair should get the boot as Bush surely will once Americans come to their senses and think for themselves.

Re-Defeat Bush in 2004!!

Moore's movie uses real footage from the media and private individuals. To say his movie is all false is to disclaim

Posted by: Joel at July 23, 2004 09:15 AM

Isn't it about time for someone to do a "documentary" on Jabba the Moore?

Posted by: Sam D. at July 23, 2004 09:31 AM

Dear Dave R:

> Is it just me or is Bush not only the worst ..but most despised President we ever had ?? The folks I talk to are ready for revolution !!

It's just you! :)

Posted by: Mike Morgan at July 23, 2004 03:19 PM

To Ryan Mergenthal

I speak on the behalf of the people you just labeled as sheep. You are very naive to believe that we as Americans are ill. You have attempted to create an argument, which in my own opinion you have failed to defend. The Iraq and Al Qaeda connection has already been discredited. Although Osama bin Laden briefly explored the idea of forging ties with Iraq in the mid-1990s, the terrorist leader was hostile to Hussein's secular government, and Iraq never responded to requests for help in providing training camps or weapons. The main reason that Saddam, did not collaborate with Al Qaeda is due to the fact that they would have been a threat to his establishment. Saddam knew quite well that with a religious uprising by the masses, he could be potentially deposed. You can make anyone do anything in the name of god. Saddam’s main interest was self-preservation and power and how to keep it. To suggest that Abu Al-Zarqawi is the missing link between Saddam and Al Qaeda again is misinforming the people. In May 2002 Zarqawi traveled to Iraq. He had his leg amputated and had a prosthetic limb to replace it. May-July 2002 Zarqawi spent time recovering in Baghdad. Of course, there is a natural curiosity as to why he chose Baghdad, but this is not a smoking gun, that allows a sovereign country to attack another. If you are going by a housing policy, which is, if you contain a terrorist then you are a terrorist, then we should of already bombed Saudi Arabia back into the stone age. Lets not forget that 9-11 was executed by mostly Saudis, and yet, we have not fired a single shot. There is no constituency. The Niger yellow cake incident, again, has been discredited by the CIA, regardless of what British intelligence suggests. NOT TRUE! When President Bush said the sixteen infamous words, "The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa", people were terrified, and most supported going to war. He was referring to a document originally obtained from Italian intelligence, which purported that Hussein had purchased a grade of enriched uranium commonly referred to as "yellow cake" from the African nation of Niger. Former Ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV, had traveled to Africa, and had warned the CIA that the document was a forgery. The CIA told the state department, and they told the White House. It was obvious that the claim simply did not belong in the State of the Union speech. Everyone under the sun but Bush himself was eventually blamed for the gaffe by White House spokesman, and media pundits. And my friend, yes, we are alone even with 30 nations in our “coalition” Here is your coalition: Afghanistan, Albania, Angola, Australia, Azerbaijan, Bulgaria, Colombia, Costa Rica, Czech Republic, Denmark, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Eritrea, Estonia, Georgia, Honduras, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Japan, Kuwait, Latvia, Lithuania, Macedonia, Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Mongolia, Netherlands, Nicaragua, Palau, Panama, Philippines, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Rwanda, Singapore, Slovakia, Solomon Islands, South Korea, Spain, Turkey, Uganda, Ukraine, UK, Uzbekistan. If some of these countries do not sound familiar to you, don’t feel bad. Most are insignificant, and have no geopolitical authority, or wealth. Let me put this into perspective, their combined GDP and purchasing power, is roughly that of California’s. Let’s not forget that most of our causalities have been Americans. You come out being so self-righteous. It made me almost want to puke. You are blinded by your ignorance. (Funny how we believe the other is ignorant). The president only created more terrorist and not destroyed them. But I will give you that these people cannot be bartered with, nor dealt with in any diplomatic fashion, but the war in Iraq was wrong. You are very naive to think that if we kill them off one by one, they will stop. you can not destroy and ideology, it is bigger than one person or a thousand people. For every one we kill, there will be two to take their fathers place. Their culture embraces vengeance and revenge, you remember that when you sleep. The only deterrent to war is Death, and you cannot defeat enemy that is not afraid to die, especially one that has no face, and nation. We had no business turning nations into democracy unless we are directly attacked. Are you ready to go to K. Korea, Iran, Syria, Sudan, Somalia, Jordan, Palestine, and the other numerous counties that we do not disagree with? If your not, then don’t talk about Iraq and freedom and blah blah blah. Remember you have to be consistent or your argument will have holes. Do you really think that Iraq will flourish on the banner of democracy? Then you do not know your history. The only other Democracy in the Mid East is Jerusalem and look how much fun they are having. You can not replace 5000 years of tribal rule with 3 distinct divisions (Sunni, Shiites, and Kurds) and make them live in peace. The real fun will begin when we start pulling out little by little, and the Iraq civil war commences. God Bless John Kerry

Posted by: Jock at July 23, 2004 04:01 PM

To Dave R -

You said:
"Does anyone actually think that a film producer with a twisted opinion dealing with no proof or facts actually knows more (or anything) about the security and running of this Great Nation of ours...than the current President? Does M. Moore know more than everyone?"

Dealing with no proof or facts? NO PROOF OR FACTS? You have to be kidding me! You haven't seen the movie have? No, I'm sure you haven't! What did Michael Moore go back in time and change public records? Rewrite press articles? Are you telling me that Bush really did go to Viet Nam? Really did get better grades? That the old footage of his dad and the Bin Ladens was actually faked? That he didn't sit on the board of a defense contractor? That they didn't do all that business with Saudi? That his first cousin didn't actually announce his predicted victory on Fox? That all those people of color didn't really stand in the white house and demand a recount, only to be rejected? Was that faked? Was the inaugural protest faked? Was the recount data after the fact faked? Cheney quitting Halliburten to become Vip is a lie? Halliburten getting award their biggest contract of ALL TIME after the Iraq invasion which the Bush administration pushed on shadey evidence, that's all a bunch of lies??? What are you, dense? Half of the stuff in that movie is common knowledge. Yes, there is slant, good achievements are left out, bad things are blown out of proportion at times, but to dismiss the entire thing as lies is just down right silly. If you get a speeding ticket, is that your defense to the judge? "I don't like it so it's all a pact of lies! None of it is based on fact or truth!"

Besides, did anyone say that Michael Moore claimed to know more about running this country than Bush? NO! There is not one single mention of any such nonsense anywhere in that film. If I say that a point-gaurd for a sport team sucks and that there are tons of better players out there, does that equate to me thinking I could do a better job? NO! It's a simple observation that the team would win more with a more professional player with greater abilities. I don't believe you people sometimes.

Bottom line, SHUT UP OR GO SEE THE MOVIE! How can you have an opinion on something you haven't even see for yourself?

Posted by: Bill at July 23, 2004 05:35 PM

Well said Kevin...well said.

Posted by: Jirai at July 24, 2004 12:13 AM

There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq
during the month of January..... In the fair
city of Detroit there were 35 murders in the
month of January.

That's just one American city, about as deadly
as the entire war torn country of Iraq.

Some claim President Bush shouldn't have
started this war ...however,

FDR...led us into World War II.

Germany never attacked us: Japan did.

From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost,
an average of 112,500 per year.

Truman...finished that war and started one in Korea,
North Korea never attacked us.

From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost,
an average of 18,334 per year.

John F. Kennedy...started the Vietnam
conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked us.

Johnson...turned Vietnam into a quagmire.

From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost,
an average of 5,800 per year.

Clinton...went to war in Bosnia without UN
or French consent, Bosnia never attacked us.

He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing.

Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.
In the two years since terrorists attacked us
President Bush has: liberated two countries,
crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida,
put nuclear inspectors in Libya, Iran and
North Korea without firing a shot, and
captured a terrorist who slaughtered
300,000 of his own people.

The Democrats are complaining
about how long the war is taking, but...
It took less time to take Iraq
than it took Janet Reno to take the
Branch Davidian compound.
That was a 51 day operation.

We've been looking for evidence of
chemical weapons in Iraq for less
time than it took Hillary Clinton to
find the Rose Law Firm billing records.

It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division
and the Marines to destroy the Medina
Republican Guard than it took Ted Kennedy to
call the police after his Oldsmobile
sank at Chappaquiddick.

It took less time to take Iraq than it took
to count the votes in Florida!!!!

Our Commander-In-Chief is doing a GREAT JOB!

The Military moral is high!

The biased media hopes we are too
ignorant to realize the facts.

Posted by: Wade at July 24, 2004 12:46 AM

Michael Moore/Lying *SS$&^*,
He said that 75% percent of the American soldiers who died in this Iraq war were Minorities and that is a bold faced lie. The fact is that the 75% percent of American soldiers who died were in fact WHITE!!! He should be sued for his sick lies. He also said that the Bin Laden family was allowed to leave the Country when all the planes were grounded. Another damn lie from a worthless fat slob/Traitor. He said he interviewed several Senators and Congressman and asked them if they wouldn't mind having there sons or daughters sent to Iraq to fight in this war and no one said yes to this!! Another lie by the fact ugly bastard. Several Congressman and Senators do have there sons and daughters fighting in Iraq and when he got aswers that he didn't like he said none of them answered yes. I saw two Congressman who were asked by Moore and when they said yes to that question he walked away like a crying baby and did not show the facts. He wants all the Minorities and other gullable idiots out there to vote for his man Kerry. He is a sick bastard as well because he hit on Hillary Clinton and that is one sick SOB!! He is a sick hound with no morals. If you want taxes to be 10% percent or more higher than Vote for Kerry and his boyfriend Edwards. They are both for same sex marriages and what a coincidence that the first State to approve it was MASS. Kerry's State!!! I myself don't want another Sodem and Gomora. Eveyone says Bush is stupid but wait until the debates and watch him make a fool of Kerry. If Kerry is so sure that he will win the election then he should step down from his Senate seat like Bob Dole did. He has missed over a hundred VOTES in the Senate and one of them being the best supplies and equipment for our troops in Iraq. If your want a strong leader and Country then vote for Bush but if you want another embarrassing leader that has affairs and has no morals then vote for Kerry/Scary!!! We need to send Michael FAT *SS Moore to Iraq on a one way ticket and our own troops would probably waste him. When Clinton was in office we had a scandal every month even from his wife or his sluts he messed around with and lied about. That really made us look good around the World. Kerry looks like Herman Monster and will be one in the White House. I pray that President Bush gets re elected and wins by ten percent or more. What ever happened to the Baldwin actors who said they would leave the Country if Bush became President?? We should have shipped them off to Sudan!!! Michael Moore and Kerry/Edwards are worthless immoral sick bastards and Kerry's wife is a B%*#%!! We are safer now then before 911 and Bush had the balls to get rid of a sick Dictator.
Sincerely
Pete G.
(Edited)

Posted by: Peter G. at July 24, 2004 04:00 AM

Has ANYONE noticed a pattern on this bulletin board; everyone who is pro Bush exhibit intellectual deficiencies in the way the express their opinions. This only proves that people who support Bush are mindless sheep and utterly clueless. There is one chap who posted his opinion (JOEL) who was right on point and I wish to commend him on his thoughts. I was compelled to repost his note but made one correction. North Korea admitted that it has WMD’s and would them on America.

Posted by: Joel at July 21, 2004 01:11 AM

Mike Morgan,

Thank you for your commentary. I'm glad you were paying attention to me. In response let me reply with the following. Now that the dust has settled and we know based on every reliable source that WMD's have not been found on Iraqi soil what can we conclude? Initially Bush stated the reason to invade Iraq was WMD. Okay no WMD's now what? Remove a tyrannical madman who’s guilty of human rights abuses correct? Is that our reason for risking American lives? If we want to make that our argument now, what of the other 23 countries worldwide that is guilty of the same human rights abuses? (Rwanda, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, and North Korea who has threatened to use it’s WMD’s on America to name a few). What's the difference between those nations and Iraq? Oil perhaps? For the lies that Bush has used to mislead us he shouldn't be celebrated or even applauded, he should be impeached!!!

Posted by: David at July 24, 2004 08:33 AM

I dare anyone to read the 911 report and tell me where it says president Bush knew about the attacks and let it happen or any of the many liberal lies the president has been accused of. I feel sorry for a nation that can believe a stupid movie like unfair911. I have no problem on debate over issues but to listen to lies or start them for political gain is wrong. This election year has shown the pure hate that the left has at heart and it should turn the stomach of all good Americans to see their true colors from Al Gore to Ted Kennedy with their complete lies. Vote for Bush and let the liberal left know this country cannot be won with hate and lies.

Posted by: 4America at July 24, 2004 11:39 AM

Response to Jirai:
George invaded a country that did not pose a threat to us and was not responsible for the destruction of the WTC. His boys: Rumsfeld and Powell both stated that Iraq did not have WMD and did not have the capability to manufacture them in 2001. The country that did and still does pose a threat to us because of their involvement in 9/11 (weren’t the hijackers Saudi?) is Saudi Arabia but we’re not going to touch them. George is too personally involved in them and their oil. Wouldn’t want to hurt daddy’s work. But he’s willing to put your child’s life in danger.

The U.S. fought against the Axis – of which Japan was a part, not just Germany and the number of lives lost was closer to 300,000 (if you want to be picky).

Truman’s domestic policy called the Fair Deal brought changes, which could have been large changes if the typically conservative Republicans in Congress weren’t worried about the effect it would have on their economic hierarchy.
What is george’s domestic policy? Tax cuts for the rich, flip/flop on his “No Child Left Behind” stunt, cut funding for veterans and benefits for the families of those serving in the military RIGHT NOW.
Truman also took responsibility for his actions as president – he didn’t look for a scapegoat.

No doubt that our current usurper did not read his history book. We entered the Vietnam “Conflict” because of fabricated intelligence and the unsubstantiated aggression from an unknown enemy – communism. (“Terrorism” being the 21st century’s communism).
BTW: Eisnehower started the "conflict"

What is it with you guys? You either want the UN or not! Clinton went to “war” without US consent and you gripe – george creates a war without UN consent and you don’t complain?

NOW, Consider THIS:
In the two years since terrorists attacked us,
President Bush
has liberated two countries, Liberated two countries? According to who…george?
crushed the Taliban – the same Taliban that he so lovingly entertained in Texas as investors?
crippled al-Qaida – but not out –as george promised – again a lie.
put nuclear inspectors in Lybia, Iran and North Korea – sounds like george is taking credit for the work of the UN.

captured a terrorist – Would that be Osama Bin Ladin? I think not!
Saddam Hussein may have terrorized his countrymen, but don’t you think that if we were concerned about the mistreatment of citizens and WMD’s we should have invaded and imperialized North Korea, too? Of course not, because, according to Wolfowitz, “there’s oil in Iraq.”

INSTEAD OF TERRORIST ATTACKING AMERICA…GEORGE TOOK IT UPON HIMSELF
• In my first two years in office over 2 million Americans lost their job.
• Cut unemployment benefits for more out of work Americans than any president in US history.
• Set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12 month period.
• Appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than any president in US history.
• Signed more laws and executive orders amending the Constitution than any president in US history.
• Presided over the biggest energy crises in US history and refused to intervene when corruption was revealed.
• Presided over the highest gasoline prices in US history and refused to use the national reserves as past presidents have.
• Cut healthcare benefits for war veterans.
• Set the all-time record for most people worldwide to sim