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July 26, 2004

Free George Bush & John Kerry Political Cartoon

Attention to all bloggers! We have seen a lot of anti-bush and anti-kerry political cartoons. This cartoon was recently made by jibjab.com. It is not an anti-bush or anti-kerry cartoon but it is a very funny political cartoon about George Bush and also a very funny cartoon about John Kerry. Click Here and see free George Bush & John Kerry political cartoon. Listen how the 2004 presidential candidates poke fun at each other and sing a long to the song :"This Land".

Posted by Tuck at July 26, 2004 08:17 PM

Comments

This is really funny, but it does little more than give people a good laugh. We need more web sites that tell people about the issues and less about frivolous things like this.

Posted by: Michael at July 26, 2004 11:12 PM

What are you talking about? Frivolity is usually what people base their vote upon.

Posted by: David at July 27, 2004 12:25 AM

Great fun!!!

Posted by: Peter Spielmann at July 27, 2004 07:23 AM

It's nice to laugh at both sides. This election scares me. Though I am concerned with too much military action, I am petrified of the Democratic swing to do nothing, say everthing actions of the past. I don't care what the world the world thinks of us. If we are to die, let's do it fighting and not hugging.

Posted by: Brian at July 27, 2004 12:00 PM

I love it!

Posted by: izzylouhoo at July 27, 2004 01:13 PM

eet ees funnny

Posted by: John Doe at July 27, 2004 02:44 PM

Funny, but how long are the media going to give the impression that republicans are dumb and democrats are brains...It is getting a bit old...

Posted by: steve at July 27, 2004 03:04 PM

In my many years, I have never seen a president weather so many catastrophies and give discive leadership like president Bush. When he made a decision, he carried it out even though it sometimes was very difficult to do. He has put into place a Home Land Security for our nation that up until now there have been no more terrorists successes in our nation. He has nipped a recession in the bud with his tax cuts and we are now seeing a growing economy. He has deposed a mass murderer, Saddam Hussein from Iraq and has instituted reform to democracy in that country against all odds. Saddam Hussein was paying Palestinian terrorist suicide bombers to kill the innocent Israeles with a reward of $25,000 to the family of the suicide bomber. This has been stopped. He has changed the mind of the Lybian leader to permit inspections. He has never caved in to the demands of the terrorists or yielded to their demands when they kidnapped innocent victims. He has fulfilled without the help of the UN the job that they vacillated in doing. He has brought honor to the presidential office that had been dishonored by the previous president. He has brought honor to the name of the commander-in-chief and honor to those under his command. He has tried to place reputable judges in their judgeships, but has been blocked by Ted Kennedy's stranglehold on the approval committee with the use of filabusters when honorable justices were blocked because they would not pass "Ted Kennedy's litmus test." He is running now a courageous race to return as our next president hoping to have enough conservative senators to lead this country forward and away from anarchy. He was placed in his position by the Almighty and the Almight will place him there again, unless the Almighty has decided to give a god-hating electorate what they deserve with a people pleaser. He has not used slander against his opponent, but has only spoke of the senate voting record of John Kerry. His opponent has permitted others to slander our president without trying to hush them or correct their slanders. We need a decisive president and president Bush is that person.
Jimmy Crowder

Posted by Jimmy Crowder at July 27, 2004 03:08 PM

Posted by: Jimmy Crowder at July 27, 2004 03:15 PM

Vote for Bush and Live.

Posted by: Priest at July 27, 2004 03:32 PM

NEWSFLASH PEOPLE!!!

GOD DOES NOT VOTE!!!

Bush was not put in place by "The almighty". He was put in place by THE AMERICAN PEOPLE (or the supreme court, but lets not split hairs). That's what DEMOCRACY MEANS!!!!

The King of England was said to be "annointed by god", but the united states elects the president. THE PEOPLE decide who the president is.

Even from a religius standpoint, saying god decided the president is rediculous. God gave man "free will". That idea behind democracy is that we use our "free will" to decide FOR OURSELVES who the president should be. Are these not the same free will???? Of course they are!!

Posted by: Aaron at July 27, 2004 05:38 PM

Well, I have to say, those cartoons are funny, and yes a good laugh is always a good thing. Seriously, I have watched the forums on this site for a few weeks, and am amazed at some of the venom, but bottom line, the future of America rest with George W Bush, there is no way that anyone can convince me that we would be safer with a Kerry presidency, and for that matter safer with any of the current crop of Democrats in any position including the cabinet. Vote Bush and thrive, vote Bush and live, and vote Bush and win!

Posted by: Mark at July 27, 2004 06:41 PM

i just have some quick questions,
when in our nation's history have we had a president that is so hated by the rest of the world? I don't remember hearing about a president that made it so difficult for other countries to trust America. Especially countries that have been our allies for decades.
Plus what happend to saving the environment and making the world a better place for our children? Bush's tax cuts depleted a budget surplus and brought us back into a deficit, A RECORD DEFICIT. I personally don't see where he has improved my life in any way during his presidency. Land that has been protected for as long as we've been protecting land has now been opened up to development, is this what we really want? I think our nation would find it very hard to bounce back from four more years of Bush.

Posted by: libno the terror at July 27, 2004 07:37 PM

Liberal is a fancy way of saying you have no morals or values. Kerry=Liberal Liberal=disaster

Posted by: Bush Supporter at July 28, 2004 12:02 AM

Priorities, everyone has them, and the first and foremost has to be our security. Once we have that under control we can then concentrate on the other issues that we all want to improve. America has been so soft in the past in respect to our national security by letting the terrorists control without reprimand. We need to show the world that we again are a strong and dedicated country and will no longer coward to the terrorists of the world in spite of what the UN is trying to sell. We need to set an example for the rest of the world to follow in reference to our stand against terrorists. France, Spain and the Philippines have already folded to the terrorists and who knows who will be next.
This is not a pleasant thing for any president to have to do and we have and will continue to suffer until it is resolved. It must be done if we are to survive as a free country. America must improve its image to the world and president Bush is the only one that has the dedication and stamina to get this very unpleasant job done. Lets all get behind our president, putting all the politics and head bashing aside, to accomplish this mission and restore the US as a world leader and a country to be reckoned with!

Posted by: Jim at July 28, 2004 10:07 AM

The libbys can't handle anyone with any sort of conviction that differs from them. The vitriolic language coming out of the "mainstream" press truly makes me understand the dangers we are facing. Freedom of the press is one of the cornerstones of our freedom. When the mainstream bases all their sources in the liberal rags like the NY or LA Times, there is little wonder why this country is so divided. If the direction the dems want to take this country doesn't set well with you like it doesn't for me do what it takes to re-elect Bush and Cheney.. Our president has stood fast in the face of world terror. While the libbys would let the UN dictate to us and compromise our sovereignty as a nation.
"Appeasers believe that if you keep on throwing steaks at a tiger, the tiger will turn vegetarian." Kerry is an appeaser. If Kerry were elected the 2nd amendment would be in jeopardy. I'd recommend people read Madison's letters to New York in the "Federalist Papers" to truly understand the significance of the 2nd Amendment in today's society. It is crucial to protect the individual against a federal tyranny.

Make a difference, join and support the NRA. Contact the Bush Campaign and contribute, inform your friends and colleagues to make a difference in November. Kerry is the most liberal person this country has seen in an election race since 1984 with Dukakis.

http://www.nraila.com
http://www.georgewbush.com

"I am the NRA"

Member since 1998

Posted by: Farmer Jones at July 28, 2004 10:19 AM

Hey Bush Supporter, I think you got the definition of liberal wrong. When I look up Bush, I see no morals, no values and IGNORANCE just like yourself.

Posted by: Kevin at July 28, 2004 12:52 PM

"The Labor Department announced that employers added 288,000 new jobs in April. In total, over 1.1 million jobs have been added from April to August, with 8 consecutive months of gains."

We have not had a terrorist attack on our soil since 9/11. In a free and open society that is a miracle.

Bush inherited a recession and the terrorists were planning to attack us during the previous administration.

We are seeing much needed improvement. Finally we have integrity in the White House. I challenge anyone to show hard core proof that Bush has not kept his integrity and credibility in tact. We did the U.N.'s job by taking down Saddam. The resoultions were passed. Johns Edwards and Kerry agreed. Does the greatest nation in the history of the world need a permission slip from France to lead a coalition to protect the interests of the rest of the free world? Keep in mind France was in bed with Saddam and his boys.

Bush sees the evidence. Michael Moore, Hollywood, and the rest of us do not. Based on the evidence he has protected our interests,even when we have personally attacked him. That's integrity. I am not sure why that offends some 50% of the population of the U.S., but I for one am grateful.

Posted by: Chris Tatem at July 28, 2004 02:06 PM

What i have seen in the last four years is a president that has NOT sold the white house for contrbutions. I have seen a president that has NOT used the White House for immoral sexual deviations that some would easily excuse as acceptable behavior. I have seen a president that has put 1200.00 back into my pocket a year. I have seen a president that cares more about the people of the united states than appeasing the united (corrupt) nations. This president has made decisions when they weren't popular, then stuck by them when the heat was on.I truly find it amazing that people put a woman in power as a senator for no other reason than her husband cheated on her and she stayed with him to futher her own aganda. that is sad. I think the only right decsion to make is to make sure Kerry dosen't get in and run this country by caring what other countries who i might add have hated us , Or should i say have been jealous of us for more than just four years. I have been to the other countries and long before Bush became president they hated us. The French people hated us back when i was there under Jimmy Carter, and they still hate us now. So if anyone thinks John Kerry will get the french and germans to change their minds they are in lala land. Watch as the elections get closer as the democratic party starts with the Elderly scare tatics and the Retoric that the republicans will take your social security and the Locus are comingm hide your tomatoe plants. It is funny they can't run on there records, just hate filled retoric that is nothing more than scare tatics. This is one registered Democrat that is voting for BUSH!

Posted by: Larry at July 28, 2004 02:37 PM

Farmer jones do you actually look at what each candidate stands for or do you just listen to the media? The media only tells bias views and most people believe what the say. also what is your definition of morals? if your definitions include the murder of millions of innocent babies and gay marriage well then you got tons of morals just like kerry. well sorry to tell but none of those things are morally right and bush doesnt support any of those things so i think its you and kerry who got no morals. maybe you should research what each candidate stands for before you say anything.

Posted by: me at July 28, 2004 02:39 PM

So let me get this straight, we should arm ourselves so we can defend against an overbearing government? What's a 9mm pistol going to help you do against a cruise missle? You live in a world of false conscienceness, stroking your gun to help bloat your ego and make you feel like you have any standing in this world. Fact of the matter is topics like this are obsolete and tired. In our political process leadership falls in the hands of who the populous would like. Meaning that if such a dictatorship were to arise you'd be too busy praying to our new leader and loving every aspect of him to even think about picking up a gun.

It's those who do not pose questions, who do not have any real passionate beliefs, who do not participate in the democratic process that cause dictatorships to arise. You think Hitler flexed his military might to gain control? It was his charisma and appealing to the people that made him powerful. The NRA is an organization founded on the belief that harming your fellow man is okay and a coalition of scared little boys who have no oratory powers, no other source of power in the world and thus must stoop to the lowest common denominator.

A bit of advice, put down your weapons and talk about what made you reach for it in the first place. More hearts will be won by the printed word than the bullet.

Posted by: RealAmerican at July 28, 2004 03:07 PM

Vote for Bush...4 more years. At least we will get someone who stands on his convictions. Everytime Kerry speaks, he says something different than the previous time (about the same subject) I just don't trust him. Bush is the better man - hands down ! ! ! ! ! !

Posted by: anne at July 28, 2004 03:07 PM

I was just browsing this site, and it looks to me that I have come to a republican site. This country is divided 50/50, and looking at the comments, is sounds to me that 50% of Americans who are democrats do not have any morals or are corrupted? It is sad to see, that the people on this site do not have an open mind. What about the 3.5 mil jobs we have lost? With that health insurance. My husband lost his job because of outsourcing, and so have a lot of friends of ours, and I have a heart condition. Homeland Security is important however, many people die because they do not have insurance, what is worse?Come down from your high horse and smell the roses. We are all one under God and America is the UNITED states. Bashing and insulting your opponents is not moral either, God bless

Posted by: Jeanette at July 28, 2004 04:27 PM

During these evil times in our nation, when unborn babies are killed just before and/or during birth, homosexual sins are called rights, and environmental concerns over shadow human need; we must have a leader, who stands firmly for moral issues. GEORGE W. BUSH is that man. The future of our grandchildren depends upon a majority of solid conservative votes in November. Flip-flop politicians will say anything to get elected. Once elected they will force their own agenda. Let's stay the course with our current forceful leader, who stands for God and County. President Bush needs us to vote and we need him to serve another four years.

Posted by: James Kirksey at July 28, 2004 09:05 PM

Dear Farmer Jones,

Thank you for proving my point. It seems that liberals this election cycle keep calling President Bush names, keep referring to him as ignorant but have at no point that I have seen anywhere, set forth 'HOW' the Kerry/Edwards ticket would do better, (Probably because Kerry/Edwards have failed to propose any meat in their arguments.) All I hear from the left is hate, and a severe lack of fact or misrepresentation of fact. And to the guy who said that GW was the most hated President in recent history by our allies, a brief history lesson, RONALD REAGAN, the press and the liberals said the same thing about him prior to his second term, and the election wwas supposed to be close too. I guess the word Ignorant is in the eye of the beholder.

Posted by: Mark at July 28, 2004 10:25 PM

One thing that is true about the jibjab.com cartoon- Kerry was all ad hominem (stupid, etc.) while Bush actually talked about what was wrong with Kerry (plus there was also ad hominem too). In short, I think it accurately portrays what the two campaigns really have behind them and what they will do when the debates start.

Posted by: phil at July 28, 2004 10:26 PM

I apologize Farmer Jones, My previous post should have been directed at Kevin and his refeence to President Bush being Ignorant, I copied the wrong posters name. You sir, have the right idea.

Posted by: Mark at July 28, 2004 10:31 PM

I loved this! And just to let everyone know, there are no real liberal or conservatives. I can't believe the small minded people that we have in our country today. The real truth is there are many spectrums of beliefs from radical consevatives to radical liberals. We all know that if someone is too radical, nothing good will ever be achieved. Look at the example of Bin Laden!
No administration is perfect, not Bush, not Clinton, not Wilson, not even either of the Roosevelt administrations. All I am saying is for everyone to get their facts straight before they judge Kerry or Bush. Do your homework, read!!!! Listening to the television will do you absolutely nothing. Republicans, prove the stereo types wrong, and Democrats, do the same. Quit listening to the outlandish slanders. WE are deciding this election. It is our duty to do the research and do some homework. We should be able to give more than a two sentence answer as to why we are voting for the right president. And really, go out and vote. Bless you all!!!!!!!

Posted by: MissKMW at July 29, 2004 12:39 AM

This is a VERY FUNNY cartoon video and I recommend it for anyone regardless of which side of the aisle you're on. Hillarious !

President Bush has shown SOLID LEADERSHIP under some very difficult circumstances and I believe that America's future rests with him. With all the " I hate Bush" attacks, Farseneheit 9/11, liberal and leftists attacks, President Bush still shows strong character and leadership.

Stand Your Ground Mr. President, We're With You !
God Bless America

Posted by: J.R. at July 29, 2004 08:59 AM

I used to be a right wing Republican, but I do not believe that the Republicans represent all of the people of this nation. Republicans feel threatened if people do not think the same way they do. They are the party of the rich and the privileged. I resent the vilifying of the name "liberal": "liberal" means generous, free, giving, and it implies giving the most to the most--or maybe all the people.

The conduct of the Iraq war shows that Bush falters. Bush does not represent me and many Americans.

Posted by: David at July 29, 2004 10:11 AM

P.S. Just a note to Mr. "I am the NRA"
Before you go bashing on the Liberals, why don't you get your facts straight. Dukakis ran in 1988, not 1984. Proving those stereo-types correct one more time again!

Posted by: MissKMW at July 29, 2004 10:48 AM

Hey Kerry supporters, maybe you can explain something to me. I have been watching the Democrat Convention on PBS every day and I am confused as to what the heck Kerry thinks. On one hand Democrat after Democrat accuses Bush of spreading the military too thin (an argument that I agree with) and underfunded (even though Kerry voted against the funding...) On the other hand they complain about how much the war has cost. Then of course there is the new commercial where Kerry says we are funding schools in Iraq while not funding them at home. Yet, all the Democrats insist that they woulde not pull out of Iraq. Howard Dean said in an interview with Jim that Kerry's plan was not much different than Bush's. My question is, what is Kerry going to do about the war in Iraq that is different from Bush? He seems to want to make it a campaign issue but does not have a position. I know Bush's plan but what is Kerry's? And if the Democrats are so concerned about those of us in the military when are they going to start supporting better funding and higher pay for us? All the lip service to the military I have seen is offensive to me because I do not see any concrete proposals from Democrats on how they will help the military. Bush gave us a raise within his first one-hundred days, thats better than what we got under Clinton. So why should I vote for Kerry? Until I see the Democrats practice what they preach my vote is solid for Bush.

P.S. I don't care if he served in Vietnam. I know a lot of people who have and it doesn't in itself qualify you for President.

Posted by: W.T. Barton at July 29, 2004 12:14 PM

I could not imagine what Gore would have done after the 9/11 attacks. I guess he would have acted like his former boss and dropped a couple of bombs on an empty tent, after an Environmental Impact study was completed by GreenPeace. In all fairness, most likely any President would have reacted the same way Bush acted. The difference between the Donkeys and Elephants is when you start a Elephant stampede, nothing will stop them until they reach their goal, where as Donkey's will only go so far then just quit, then they won't move out of stubborness. I have never seen a stampede of wild donkeys anyway. That is exactly what has happened in the war on terrorism. Bush(the elephant)explained at the onset that we were going to get the attackers and then onward toward removing them globally. The donkeys said: "Yeah, let's go get em, we're with you man...(that's the hippie coming out in them)". Now the donkeys say: "hey man... let's just do afghanistan man....." they just quit. That is the Democrats entire outlook on things: Only treat the symptom so they can "FEEL" good and admire their good deeds; where as Republicans treat the sore, but also look to heal that which is causing the sore. For if you don't heal the cause, the sore will return. You libs had best be thankful you had President Bush, so we won't have to worry about these types of things in the future.

One other thing, while you read these blogs, notice the intellectual thoughtfulness of most "crazed right-wingers" compared to the 3rd-gradish immature view of a lot of Democrats. We are accused, by the libs, as the uneducated, unenlightened ones in America, but just listen to your comments and your Hollywood leaders, who at best may have a liberal arts degree. I guess the liberals wait to have a script written for them (since they own Hollywood), before they actuaully know what they think. I also move to add another emblem to their mascot holdings: windshield wipers! Because they flip back and forth, and just remove what's on the surface....all the while shouting that they have stopped the rain.

Posted by: Jeff at July 29, 2004 02:25 PM

Plain and simple this country needs a commander in chief who will lead and not succumb to the pressures of the world and terrorists. The United States of America is the world powerhouse and needs to stay this way. As long as we are number one then the world will hate us. What we all need to understand is that if people don�t hate us then we are no longer on top. Our President took the �Bull by the Horns� told the UN to shove it!! And above all took care of the American People. This is something that our former president did not ever do. No matter what anyone says we are much safer since we invaded Iraq. Vote for a president that will make a decision for the people and not for his political career. Vote George W. Bush

Posted by: Justin King at July 29, 2004 04:23 PM

Hey Jeff, if you want to get the complete scoop on just how insane Hollywood has become, you should read "Hollywood, Interrupted" by Andrew Breitbart & Mark Ebner.
The "Hollywood Elite" really believe they are the chosen ones and feel it is their duty to enlighten the rest of America with their wisdom. The truth is they're really not much better than the guests on Jerry Springer's show.

Posted by: RT at July 29, 2004 06:02 PM

I may disagree with you, but I will defend to the death your right to say it!

Posted by: David at July 29, 2004 06:03 PM

It's amazing to me how a good number of the people in this great country don't understand what America stands for. They don't understand what freedom is, and the necessary sacrifice to keep it in existence. They don't understand the Constitution and how it protects this country from falling. If all would unbiasly study and learn the truth of these, people wouldn't be succumbed to this media-kindled hatred towards President Bush. He is a great man and who does represent, lead and defend the United States with honor and dignity. He cares about the right principles not the right words to say when the camera is on. He is a compassionate leader who is full of good heart and righteous intentions! That’s who I want as President of the United States of America! That's who I believe the majority of America truly wants too!

Posted by: Brandon at July 29, 2004 11:52 PM

George Bush is a good guy, and has helped our nation get through some tough times. I'll give him my vote.

Posted by: Peter R at July 30, 2004 12:06 AM

I agree with Jeanette!! WE NEED GW TO STAY THE COURSE! Kerry and Edwards stood there and offered America everything it wants even if it is contradictory. The fact is, they do have there own agenda and it does not include anything they have promised. Kerry is about as far from Presidential material as George Burns is to winning the next Boston Marathon.

Posted by: Robbe Zappa at July 30, 2004 12:37 AM

Hey,

Just returned from Iraq, what a neat and beautiful place it is. Scenes straight out of Charleston Hesston�s 1960�s biblical movies. It was pretty cool. Some day I hope to go back and visit the Garden of Eden. The Americans are showing hope and compassion, the Iraqi's are doing their best, but most of all the kids have hope.

Side note --the Abu Gharib prison scandal is just that a scandal -- the people involved were promiscuous and out of control. These young people were overwhelmed, leaderless and perverted. Their commanders were the result of the welfare Guard instituted by President Clinton. Don�t join if you don�t want to fight.

Now to the real subject at hand. Ask any Operation Iraqi Freedom Vet who is not a Welfare Soldier what kind of shape they think a three time Purple Heart winner would be in � I am confident they will tell you they would be dead two times over. It doesn�t take a Rocket Scientist to figure out John Kerry�s motives during the Vietnam War. I commend him on going, but what was his goal. 4 months? If he really was a member of a �Band of Brothers� then why would he leave them? I am not questioning his patriotism just his motives. I know I have a multitude of lifelong friends from OIF and I will NEVER leave them.

Why all the hatred from the left? What do they really care about the War in Iraq? What do they know that we don�t? Let me see � Michael Moore � white, fat, multimillionaire; John Kerry � white, skinny, gigolo (billionaire) Did you see the shot with one of Teresa Heinz�s sons staring at one of John Kerry�s daughters tits in the bleachers � disgusting; John Edwards � white, chunky, multimillionaire Did you see him throwing his kids around like Michael Jackson � his poor daughter was scared trying to hold onto his hand and he yanked it forcibly away numerous times SICK. Oh yeah the point: what in the hell do whoever the anti-Bush is made up of think � the three Amigos are going to help them � wake up, please.

If you saw the putrid state of affairs in Iraq you would never discount this war! They were like the dogs caged up at the Best Friends Animal Sanctuary in Utah. Another putrid place. Anyways the left would have us believe the no kill theory � like at Best Friends where urbanites abandon their dogs because they get in the way of their quest for dollars. Its okay though because they will have a nice place caged in with other dogs to wilt away. They usually start to go insane within 2 months Imagine 35 years. The link is the left talks and the right acts. Plain and simple. Bush never said anything other than he was going to kick their ass as long as it takes. Did he? The left on the other hand tries to humiliate ours troops in Iraqi, our coalition (us and the little guys � the ones who have lived through the tyranny of Russia and Germany) France has such a Muslim influx that they think they can�t do anything. COWARDS, make Goebbel (Hitler�s Michael Moore) propaganda movies, thrust the hypocrisy of the bourgeoisie Hollywood on us � maybe we can sue all the actors at the conventions and on the media for promoting a political agenda � I never intended to donate to the Whoopi Goldberg left when I went to see Sister Act.
We are all still alive � the terrorist are dying in Iraq and Afghanistan � so are Americans and others, so let us honor them instead of treading on them. Everybody isn�t born to be a soldier, but everybody should have respect and quit trying to live in an imaginary World. The truth is based on perception sometimes, but when it is integrated with cynicism than it is tyrannical in a time of war. Voice your opinion and talk with others, have conversations not confrontations. If there is one thing we all know � it is that we know nothing! Don�t say you are going to take the high road just do it! And remember if we didn�t have the big drug companies we wouldn�t have Lance Armstrong! Viva le Lance!

Smile � the sun came up today � quit wasting time arguing and just write how you feel not how you think they should think.

- yours forever

An American Soldier

Posted by: GI Iraq at July 30, 2004 02:29 AM

One last point �

Someday soon I think people in the United States of America will realize a couple of things:

1.) Someday soon 50% of the population will be supporting the other 50% - I don�t know about you, but if I didn�t pay taxes I wouldn�t vote to increase them. Reality is - civil war is on the horizon � workers against non-workers.
2.) Racism: go to foreign countries and learn what racism really is!
3.) The real battle of our time is still Democracy vs. Communism. US vs. China
Battleground: Middle East.
Why? I don�t know ask your dad! Read about the Caspian Sea, South China Sea and see what is really going on.
4.) Try walking in my shoes: quit thinking you could do somebody else�s job i.e. Presidency of the United States.
5.) Conspiracies: if your life is so boring that you believe in Michael Moore�s conspiracies than you need to get a job.
6.) Marriage: I�ll give you a million dollars if you can stick it in my ass and make me pregnant or a female immaculate conception.
7.) Ward of the State: each government program gathers more constituents, welfare, and unemployment, on and on and yet you don�t realize you are just a ward of the state. Dumb Ass!
8.) Life: whatever you want it to be � your perception is your reality so if you want to change it then learn so you can figure out how to do it better.

Oh there is a mistake in there � just want to see who can read!

Posted by: GI Iraq at July 30, 2004 03:05 AM

It's amazing and incomprehensible to me how anyone, with any intelligence and judgement, would describe George Bush a leader with "values"

There are ample examples, verifiable, that we can all refer to which show that President Bush has lied and flipped-flopped in his explanations. Does that show "values?"

Mr. Bush, even with a silver spoon in his mouth, has failed in everything he has tried, only to be bailed out by his family connections and the Supreme Court (2004 election).

When a man states in a speech to the "super-rich" that they are his base, who do you think he is working for?

When a man, and his family, hold hands with the Saudi Royal Family, is it far off to think that they could put their own interests ahead of Americans?

When the Bush administration fights tooth and nail to not make the financial help, the $87B, for Iraq's reconstruction repayable loans, isn't it logical to question why?

Who are their priorities, Iraqi's or Americans?

Note that the 87B, most of it, ends up in the pockets of the contractors, namely Haliburton. Is it too far-fetched to think that there is something suspicious about this circular flow of cash from us the taxpayers to a specific interest that is connected to the White House -- especially in light of the fraudulent bidding process for those contracts?

Is it too hard for some of you to see that it has taken thousands of innocent Iraqi's and over 900 of our own American soldiers lives to free the Iraqi people from Saddam. How many more of our own have to die before we will say that the price for liberating Iraq is way too high? Should we sacrifice more American blood, your son or husband or wife or daughter, to free North Koreans? Cubans? Chinese? etc.

Is it so difficult to see that the so-called "coalition" in Iraq is a sham, that in reality it is only the Brittish and us. The rest are token contingents.

When Bush is disliked by not just 50% of Americans, but also much of the rest of the world, including friendly countries and prior allies, is it that they are all blind and simply do not understand Bush's "genius." Is most of the world wrong?

Some people that do not like Bush think that he has masterminded all these issues and many more. I am not one of them. I just think he is way over his head, as he was when running his oil company or when he was at Yale. He is mediocre in terms of intelligence, he is short-sighted, and too extreme with his dogma. He is simply incompetent to run a business, let alone our country.

I surely hope that the Republican Party does a better job in selecting a better candidate for the Presidency next time around, we are all stuck with this one for now. At this moment Reagan, which I was not too fond of, or even Bush Senior would be a much better choice than this junior Bush. The reason I do care about the Republican candidate is that if he wins, it affects my life and the life of all others.

If you are truly and honestly for values and for America, vote for Kerry. He might not be the best candidate, he has his own issues, but at least we can trust that he will bring the rest of the world to our side again. We can trust that Kerry, who actually served in the military -- in battle -- has the courage to face the enemy head on. He will not hide behind a group of kids in a classrooom, Kerry will be a decisive commander-in-chief.

Posted by: Jose at July 30, 2004 05:26 AM

It's interesting, and somewhat funny, how one of the previous bloggers congratulated himself for the thoughtfulness of "crazed right-wingers" (Barton) postings here.

The reason it is funny, is that the so-called thoughtfulness is actually somewhat shallow in reasoning. Many of the arguments made here, by everyone, are mere generalizations with very little substance. It is a rehash of what we all see in the media.

Take the comment by MissKMW above "Then of course there is the new commercial where Kerry says we are funding schools in Iraq while not funding them at home. Yet, all the Democrats insist that they woulde not pull out of Iraq."

Her intention is to give an example of how contradictory these statements, given by democrats, are. If one were to give a little more thought to these statements, we could come to agree that they are not contradictory. We must stay to complete the job, that is a general agreement, but do we have to take on all the burden. There are allies that can be tapped by a more respected and diplomatic President such as Kerry. Also, we can still reverse the decision by Bush to not make the 87B (or the 20B that went to Iraq directly to be more precise) repayable loans with Iraqi oil - over time.

We could reduce the overall cost of the war by having the Iraqi's pay their own way to freedom and for their own schools. But the Bush administration has fought that fiercely. Do you wonder why? And don't tell me that Republicans are now philanthropists.

It is quite possible to reduce the cost of war and "free" up some money to pay for our own schools in America.

Is my interpretation of the democratic comments above feasible in your minds? At least a little bit? If so, then the contradiction sought by the writer is undermined. If it is undermined then many other of her arguments also become suspect.

This is only 1 example of the shallowness whether by design or ignorance that abounds in most of these blogs. So, I would not be too proud of the "thoughtfulness" of your conservative bloggers. But my guess is that Bush supporters may find it difficult to comprehend these complexities*.

----------------------------------------------
* I know that my last comment may be somewhat rude, but I just want to make the point that in my view Bush caters, with his soundbites and charades (such as the fighter-pilot stunt) to the ignorant. Again, I am not sure if it is by design or by genuine incompetence. But the fact remains that Bush is attractive to people like himself.

Posted by: Jose at July 30, 2004 05:58 AM

Why don't the youth vote? I'll tell you why the youth can't vote. The 15 million U.S. "youth" enrolled in American colleges are hindered by the process of absentee ballots. People complain about the steady decrease of youth voters since giving sufferage to 18 year olds, yet they don't note the vast increases in college enrollment. We can't vote. I tried and found out in order to hold a REAL "get out the vote" activity on a college campus you need specific information to each individual county. How about the kids that have to fly back to Florida to vote? Enough with "Vote or Die" it doesn't help if you live away from your voting district. Could someone please give P. Diddy a clue. We can't vote because the process blocks us from doing so. WHY IS NO ONE SEEING THIS!!!

Posted by: Disenfranchised College Student at July 30, 2004 07:40 AM

I remember back in the 2000 election.
What did Bush promise?
Compassionate Consevativism?

There is nothing compassionate or conservative about unilateral pre-emptive war, promoting far right agendas that alienate half the country, and sending our troops to war without the real reason, a real plan, and real financing to get the job done.

George W. Bush said he would unify this country and ALL HE HAS DONE IS DIVIDE.

He has divided us from each other and the world.

And a clue for all of you Liberal does not mean immoral or not Godly.

That is something someone made up.

And if you haven't read your Bible lately.

Jesus was inclusive not exclusive. He gave love and gave it freely even to those who maybe didn't deserve it. And still does.

We should all live and have a leader that lives by THIS principal.

We need a uniter not a divider.
We need a promoter for all the people not just Big Business and the Thick Religious Right (Wrong).
We need someone that can communicate not a man who went to Yale and can barely audibly speak speeches written for him.
We need a vision not a canned plan from old Reagan mafia.

We need a real leader.

We need John Kerry.

And if not him, a cow could do better.

Posted by: Melissa at July 30, 2004 10:29 AM

Im only 16 years of age and i can not vote. But if i can make swing voters vote, thats all i want in america im not saying vote kerry or bush even though i do support kerry i just want anyone who dident vote VOTE, now about this cartoon i thought it was very funny because its so true all R's and the D's is sit around and yell at each other like this fourm here all you adults are sitting around finding bad stuff on bish or kerry why wont you do somthing dont be a coward and im tired of hearing about france and all that b%*#@!$^ going to iraq was pointless....
(Edited)

Posted by: Rego at July 30, 2004 10:40 AM

Dear Disenfranchised College Student:

Jesus came to cause the greatest DIVISION of all. Read this: Luke 12:51 - "Do you think I have come to bring peace to the earth? No, I have come to bring strife and division!"

Sorry to burst your peace bubble.

Posted by: Jeff at July 30, 2004 05:36 PM

I believe most of us think of Ted Kennedy and Hillary Clinton when we hear the word Liberal. It is therefore hard to imagine that (Based on voting records) Kerry/Edwards is a MORE LIBERAL team than Kennedy/Clinton would have been.

Posted by: Richard at July 31, 2004 05:56 AM

If Kerry voted FOR the 87billion before he voted AGAINST it... did it ever occur to anyone to ask who voted AGAINST it before they voted FOR it? It didn't pass the first time... did anyone think to ask why not? Is anyone aware of what a meaningless protest vote is? There's a lot of ignorance out there, and yes, that's Our Fearless Leader's base.

FactCheck is a nonpartisan, nonprofit, project funded by the Annenberg Foundation. Many of you would do well to get your facts straight.

http://www.factcheck.org/default.aspx

Also, there's this... odor... in the air. The stench of folks speaking ill of that which they do not know. Go to Kerry's site, check it out, don't take Bill O'Reilly's word on EVERYTHING.

http://www.johnkerry.com

All this talk about security and defense seems a little superstitious. How much do you know about the military, it's budgeting, it's strategies? Here's another non-partisan site, devoted to all things defense, check it out, educate yourself.

http://www.cdi.org/

Posted by: michelle at July 31, 2004 12:05 PM

Check out http://www.swiftvets.com/ for the real truth about John Kerry

Posted by: Jim Rodkey at August 1, 2004 08:19 PM

hello people wake up i don't see how you can possibly call bush "honest" and "loyal" and then call librals people with no values. First of all bush is a lieing moron, he might be a good lier but that won't save him, i will not vote for someone who immaturely attacks a nation that did NOTHING to us and then changes the reason, you know when clition lied nobody died, when bush lies because of his stupid fear mongering to attack anyone that he doesn't like and call them "communist" oh sorry the new word is "terrorist" and calls everyone in america terroists that say anything about the government that is bad, sounds like Stalin to me, nope just the Patriot Act. our founding fathers said that if we have to "destroy civil liberites to increase defence we don't deserve either" so i guess bush doesn't. oh and by the way bush leaves out all the poor and focuses on the rich in the society gives them trillion dollar tax cuts and then throws us into war hello you idiot low taxes + big spending=big DEFICIT! plus my school is now left behind because our town is in debpt so much for the "no child left behind act" oh yeah maybe if he didn't pull the funds and covered it by attacking kerry u might have known, and you say also that kerry bashes more than bush if u go to the bush site Kerry is on the front page with tons of anti-kerry propoganda and on the kerry site it isn't like that. plus this president is obessed with religion it is scary, hitler said he was placed in his position by god too u know, plus he wants to alienate people by teaching faith based? oh, but they say they are open, ok, put a buddist in a catholic church and if they don't do the cerimonies lets just socially abuse that person. i hate bush he is the worst president we have ever had i don't care what kerry has done the devil himself would make a better leader! bush is a INSAINE FEAR MONGERING LUNITIC!

Posted by: Matthew at August 6, 2004 02:16 PM

What I find amusing is the people that are angry at Kerry for supporting "the mortal sin of homosexuality".

Are all of you homophobes that insecure with yourselves that you can't stand the sight of seeing someone different from you happy?

Furthermore, your perception of "sin" has no place in our government. We need to keep religion and religious values OUT of our government, or we may someday be forced to repeat the days of religious persecution as we did in the late 17th century.

As a heterosexual Christian, I believe that we should "judge not, lest we be judged". Doesn't the bible say that?

My biggest gripe with Republicans is that they are out to better themselves, and only themselves. I believe that if you make better society as a whole, it will become better for each individual. Instead, the Republicans who have come from extremely wealthy families have money and power handed to them (e.g. - "W"), and then slam the poor man by saying that "he has to work for equality".

Hypocrisy, my friends, is not what this nation was founded upon. The founding fathers would be turning in their graves if they saw what was going on in their beloved USA today.

Do you think Thomas Jefferson would approve of the environmental debacle going on in this country today? Would Samuel Adams approve of the tax cuts to the filthy rich, and the rollback of child tax credits to the middle and lower classes? Would George Washington approve of this "war" we're fighting?

The answer to all three is no. You, I, George W, Tom Ridge, John Ashcroft, Donald Rumsfeld, and Condoleeza Rice all know it.

Let's make a vote for fairness and equality. Vote for a green environment and clean water that our children and grandchildren may enjoy. Lets vote for sensible foreign policy (domestic, too...have we forgotten about our OWN problems?). Restore dignity and truth back to the White House.

If you disapprove of what's going on in your government today, write to your congressman or congresswoman. Write to your Senator. Pick up the phone and do something!

Remember, we learned in 2000 that every vote counts! On November 2nd, get out and exercise your right to vote, and vote for John Kerry and John Edwards!

Posted by: Jon at August 10, 2004 12:26 PM

Do you know how to tell when "John Kerry" is lieing? Very simple - "He opens his mouth!"

One must have morals - pride and dignity about himself and others to run for President ---- Thus far - "Bush" shines far above "Kerry" ---- It was a sad day for us all on 9/11 - I am very thankful that "Bush" was in charge of our country - that he held us together as "One Nation Under God Indivisible With Liberty and Justice for All!"

If any one out there pays attention to Fox News and the History Channel ---- they will get a better idea of what this world is up against (Weapons, Mass Graves, Brualitity, Hatred, Jihad, killings, bombings, slayings - heheadings, etc....--- it is not about 2 people running for political office --- it is about the one person whom believes strong enough in life that he is able to unite --- and will continue a path in the direction for the PEOPLE today, our children and their grandchildren to come ............

There is enough Negative in the world - without voting in a President without own personal accountability ----- I want a President with ethitics ----- one who believes in America and the Principals we were founded on!

How many of you - on 9/11 - first words out of mouth --- "Oh my God --- and how many of you believed strong enough to be on your knees in prayer --- and how many felt the instant relief of knowing God was a part of our lives and our uncertainty ------ "Bush" is a believer --- during 9/11 we all were!

Cast your vote as if you were admist a terriost attach --- whom do you want to lead your life path through it! Could any of us acted as George Bush on 9/11 taking the fire attacks from others whom believe he has over reacted..... How much further should we fall - before we stand firm aginst the evil around us - making the choice to stand tall?

Posted by: Bb at August 11, 2004 10:29 AM

Jon I would ask you to show me anywhere in the US Constitution where it says Separation of Church and State. It seems that Liberal Democrats want to read into the Constitution anything that fits their needs. This Country was founded on Religion and the right to practice without persecution. The Constitution states that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." It didn't say the Government and Religion couldn't co-exist.

You talk of Hypocrisy when the two men running for the Democratic ticket are two of the wealthiest men in America. They go to a Wendy's for a photo op and have 5 star lunches delivered to their busses from a Yacht club. You lump all Republicans as the extremely wealthy, but I see very few Hollywood types in the Republican Party. I guess getting paid 1 mil per episode for a sitcom doesn't count as wealthy does it. John Edwards and John Kerry have more money that President Bush but it's the Republicans who are the wealthiest. You want to see a Hypocrite take a good long look in the mirror.

As for the rollback on child credits you can thank the DEMOCRATS for that one and all the other rollbacks that are coming down the line. In order for President Bush to get his tax cuts through Congress (so stimulate the economy) they had to concede to the Democrats who would agree to the tax cuts if they were ALL rolled back by 2010. Don't blame the Republican for the actions of the Democrats.

When the President wanted to give TAX paying families a check for the child tax credit it was the Democrats that said it was not fair unless every family received the check INCLUDING families that did not pay one single cent of taxes. So here we have someone who did not pay taxes and they still get a credit that you and I as tax paying citizens earned. I guess that's you idea of a just moral society though.

Here is a story I read on my clubs web site.

A young self proclaimed Liberal Democrat just home from college on a break asked her father how he could possibly be a Republican. He said I feel I should be able to keep what I earn, I worked hard for it and I don't feel that I should pay more taxes to help others who don't work.

She told him that he was wrong and that it's the responsibility of the wealthy to take care of the poor.

He changed the subject and asked her how school was going. She said, man it's hard. I study all the time, never get to go out and have fun. It's not at all like I though it would be. He asked about her grades and she said she was working harder than most but had a 4.0 average.

He then asked about her roommate and how she was doing. Oh she parties all the time, rarely studies and has a 2.0 average, but she seems to be enjoying herself.

The father suggested that when she goes back to school she should go see the dean and tell him that you want to give your roommate 1.0 of your average and that way you both can have 3.0 averages and everyone is happy.

She said NO way I worked hard for those grades and she partied all the time and didn't study for the tests.

Her father said, "Welcome to the Republican Party"

Bottom line is, if the people keep relying on the government to live then they will never try and better themselves. That is the Democrats underlying philosophy. Keep the poor, poor and promise them social programs to they will keep voting for them. As long as there are Social Programs there will be poor people.

I myself grew up in the slums of the big city, rarely had shoes on my feet, went hungry many nights and made myself a promise that I would not live my life that way. I joined the Military out of High School and am doing pretty well for myself. There is always a way out if you are willing to look for it.

I guess you are an expert on the thoughts of dead people too. You have know Idea what the founding fathers would have thought, so don't try and preach what you don't know.

Posted by: Wayne at August 11, 2004 12:39 PM

I'm registered Independent, but it's easier to believe in the Republicans than the Democrats, maybe the problem with unemployment in this country is not Bush's "so called evil plot" to protect the wealthy, maybe its the fact that a lot of Americans are just damn lazy, and the Democrats help them be lazy. I work hard for what I have, and its not that much, just what I need to live comfortably, I ALSO EXPECT PEOPLE TO WORK FOR ALIVING, is that wrong?? I don't like the fact that money comes out of my paycheck to help people who are sitting on their butts doing nothing, why should I? why should you?If we made it a volunteer program, would you give half your paycheck to someone with no job, and no initiative to look for one? I doubt it. Like I said I'm registered Independent, but you can't call Republicans stupid at every turn just because you have no answers. And also, when is a man worth billions with 4 mansions worth millions speaking for the common man?? All these "Rock stars and Hollywood elite" with their millions, are they speaking for the common man too? maybe they should start giving there money away, sell there mansions and help the lazy? I don't see that happening either. As I read through these posts, I see people making valis points and Arguments (Republicans) and people throwing out frustrated name calling (Democrats) Bur if you stand for a weaker military, higher taxes, high price gasoline, your kids doing mandatory community service to graduate,and helping the lazy be lazy, then vote for Kerry, I'LL BE VOTING FOR BUSH, (Go ahead Democrat, call me stupid now, I'll be waiting)

Posted by: Chris at August 12, 2004 10:24 AM

Hi Wayne U R stupid. well don't cry - you were begging for it. truth is all you so-called conservatives are all a bunch of sheep that are being led by the nose by the likes of Limbaugh, O'Reilly, Hannity, and all the other jerks at Fox, MSNBC, etc. who all have the same agenda -screw the working man & look out for the rich. If you had to think for yourself you would be lost. I just can't believe how many of you out there just can't send this country to hell fast enough. When you & your so-called president speak of evil you should be looking in the mirror because you are the most evil of all.

Posted by: Big D at August 13, 2004 02:33 AM

I was a registered and voting Democrat until 1980 when I saw the light and changed parties. I just couldn't stomach Legal Murder (Abortion) and the systematic pushing of God out of this country that was founded on His name. In 1980 we voted Ronald Regan into office after Jimmy Carter down-sized our military almost to extinction, and allowed Iran to maintain 51 Americans in captivity, and ran the economy into the dumper. Now we are allowing Gay marrage, truth benders like Michael Moore and Al Franken and pushing the limits on embryonic stem cell research to push us closer and closer to the brink. We survived Jimmy Carter, we survived Billary Ramrod-Clinton. I'm not sure we have another save in us.

Posted by: Ron at August 13, 2004 06:33 PM

Instant Hero?

There is something that has been bothering me for some time. And the more I think about it, the less sense it makes. John Kerry received three Purple Hearts in Vietnam. Not one, not two� But three! I would like to know how many other people have received three of these awards. I am sure there may have been a few. And it is not just the number of awards that really makes this amazing, but the fact that he (John Kerry) did it in just four short months!
What makes this truly monumental is: most people honored with this award have received wounds severe enough to require months of recuperation. A lot of the defenders of our country received this award posthumously (did not survive the wounds). Also, you don�t receive multiple purple hearts for a single wound, nor for multiple wounds received at the same time. This means he (John Kerry) would�ve received the wound, been medically treated, recuperated and returned to battle three times!! And in four short months!! This would be nothing short of miraculous. Then, he (John Kerry) was sent back stateside, after just four short months in Vietnam! And he shows no ill effects of these wounds to this day. Take a look around our Veteran�s hospitals to see what medial problems a �wounded� Vet suffers from. Then take a look at John Kerry. Is this a miracle in the making?
Is there a credibility issue here? Were these wounds of the severity to really deserve a �Purple Heart� and not detract from, or denigrate the names, of the real �Heroes� who�ve received this award? Were these awards (along with the other awards received by Mr. Kerry) pushed through by influential �Friends� and/or Family to pad a future political career?
I think Mr. Kerry should be required to wear a label reading �Instant Hero � Just add Medals� And subtract credibility.

R. E. Gragg
Sergeant First Class, U.S. Army Retired

Posted by: Ron at August 13, 2004 06:43 PM

i've been watching these elections for almost fifty years... i have yet to see "anyone" tell the truth.... they can promise you anything and they dont have to deliver nothing, its just a dog & pony show and when its over,30% of the american people will vote........

Posted by: charles at August 14, 2004 12:20 AM

There's nothing funnier than a desperate Democrat, wiggling and waggling all over the place. Very entertaining.

Posted by: Shirley Stanford at August 16, 2004 04:00 PM

www.bush4more.com

4 more years.

Posted by: bt at August 19, 2004 04:00 PM

www.kerryoniraq.com

good documentary on the candidate.

Posted by: bt at August 19, 2004 04:33 PM

Let's get this straight. The United States of America has REAL enemies. Some are apparent and others are more overt (I know that there are liberals running for the Oxford dictionary to look up "overt” To make it easy on you it simply means hidden.) Some are foreign and some are domestic.

Foreign enemies are usually easy to spot, they are the ones that, you know blow up buildings and behead innocent Americans. But then, there are the domestic enemies of the Country on whom we shall concentrate.

They are the ones that blend in with everyone else. They are the ones that promise the American electorate a better day, but never really lay out the plan. They are the ones that daily criticize the President of the United States (POTUS) and diminish the war effort. They are the ones that say that they support the troops in the war, but systematically block every attempt to fund the war that is being fought; at every opportunity, they seek to break the moral of the troops that are fighting, by telling them that the war in unjust and un-winnable. They are the ones who seek to silence 250 combat veterans who dare to speak up about there eyewitness account of the actions of the man that wants to be the next Commander in Chief.

At the risk being of be labeled verbose, I will wrap it up (For my liberal friends verbose means wordy.) At this unfrequented time in American history, it is these domestic enemies that stand to do more harm, than any of the foreign enemies. That is why it is absolutely imperative that any American who would like to see America strong and vibrant throughout the world and at home, get out to vote. But we can't stop there. We must ensure that our neighbor, friends and co-workers vote. More importantly, we must ensure that each voter is well equipped with facts and platform knowledge on which each candidate stands. It recent days it seems that JFK the Second has a wobbling platform from which he continues to waffle back and forth between both sides of all issues. He is baseless. Therefore, I am voting for GWB.

I challenge any liberal to point out one policy the JFK2 has uttered that they actually support. Tell me what about JFK2 that you actually like. It is well established that liberals don't like Bush for several reasons, but I want to know what it is about Kerry that makes him standout.

Posted by: Just Cause at August 21, 2004 06:23 AM

Kerry/Edwards is on the rocks!!! Let the Fat Lady sing, it's all over.

Posted by: Brian at August 24, 2004 11:31 PM

about the dems screaming about the deficit - clinton DID NOT balance the budget, leaving us "without debt" - that plan was supposed to run to 2010 - then, it MIGHT have been balanced, IF nothing came up - wars, extra aid to other countries, ect. about what this war is costing us - the military aint there for decoration, honey!!! would you rather save money, or be destroyed by iran, north korea, ext? why dont dems see that??????????????/

Posted by: MaryAnn at August 27, 2004 01:43 PM

Oh my word! I can't believe all of the republicans on this site! I was worried about the polls, but I didn't realize how many people on this site are for Bush. If I could vote I would vote for Kerry... duh. I can't believe people can say that Kerry is a bad man for being pro-choice. George Bush is "pro-killing twenty-year-olds for no reason and killing little Iraqi children and adults." I believe that is a lot worse. I also don't understand this whole thing about being against gay people. I for one didn't wake up one morning and decide to be strait, I just am. What makes you think gay people choose to be gay? I don't get it! And, besides, just because you can't have babies with your partner doesn't mean you can't adopt. Imagine all of the children in the orphanages finally getting adopted. That would solve over-population. Instead of basing all information on the Bible, think about what could really be true from the Bible. Personally, I don't think God would frown upon someone that was born gay. Everyone is different and I think he understands that. You talk about all of this thing about loving your neighbor, but you don't care about killing Iraqis, kids in the military, and you hate gay people... a bit contradicting, eh?

Posted by: FlamingLiberal at August 29, 2004 01:25 PM

FlamingLiberal,

I relly think that your statement that Bush is pro-killing 20 years olds and Iraqi children is harsh. Using you logic, compare the deaths in the war of Terror in the last three years with abortion. There is no comparison, the number of abortions is far greater than lives lost in the war. Do you think it was also wrong for Americans who gave up their lives to free the blacks from slavery in the American Civil War? Do you think it was wrong for Americans to give up their lives to defeat Hitler and Mussolini in Europe? If the war on terror is a success the loss of life, though tragic, will have been worth something to the freedom of all people in the world. The same can not be said about abortion.

I don't hate gays, but I am a conservative Christian who believes that the Bible says that homosexuality is a sin. I also belive that gossip, lying and hate is also a sin. I simply disagree with the gay lifestyle for me personally. There is far more data to back up the gay lifestyle as a choice and the supposed gay gene has been discredited by many in medical research. I don't have a problem with gay civil unions but I believe that marriage is a religious committment that involves three people, a man, a woman and God. I also belive that gay civil unions should have all the rights of a married couple but I don't agree with calling it a marriage because it is in violation of the principles of scripture.

These are all complex issues that should neither be embraced nor dismissed without understanding all of the facts and concerns on both sides of the issue and can not be painted as broadly as you have.

John Kerry has said that he believes, from a moral point of view, that life begins at conception. He then disregards his moral convictions and votes to allow for something he would have to agree is murder because it's the taking of a human life. To me, this demonstrates a lack of moral conviction. I could understand his position better if he though life began at birth, but that's not what he said. If he believes that life begins at conception and then can set aside his moral convictions to allow for abortion, what else is he willing to set aside his moral convictions.

The values that he claims to have, must be based upon something and I believe that our values are an outward expression of our moral positions. In standing on both sides of this issue I believe that John Kerry demostrates that he is not willing to embrace his own morals and therefore has no moral clairty and that negates his claim that he has values.

Posted by: Jim Rodkey at August 30, 2004 02:36 AM

I don't care how many people have been killed in the war. No one should have died...
Would you rather have a bunch of teenage kids living on the streets, doing drugs, and trying to raise their babies or have more kids in school, getting an education and straightening up their lives? If we have a bunch of highschool dropouts raising our future generation (our future leaders), the world will soon be doomed. There are also some people who say, "Teenagers shouldn't have sex anyway." So, to "teach them a lesson" we are going to make them go through birth and make them drop out of school to take care of their baby? I, personally think we should be more focused on helping them straighten out their lives rather than be so worried about punishing them.
WE ARE FIGHTING A WAR THAT CAN'T BE WON! It's like watching poor children and adults squirm for our own sick amusement. I am not amused by this war at all. I do believe that we did the right thing freeing the slaves. I, however, don't think we should be in Iraq. George Bush gave us about a million reasons why we were there and none of them have been proven yet. So, don't even compare this war to the Civil War because that is just SICKENING!
About whether we call it marriage or not, what's the difference? I mean come on... if I am eating pasta, I can call it pizza, but it's still pasta. I know that food shouldn't be compared with marriage, but I think you get my point. I think marriage is for two people that love each other and God, not necessarily a man and a woman. I am a christian as well, but I just don't see God getting so mad about gay people getting married.
I am not going to change your mind and you are not going to change mine. Let's just agree to disagree now that we have both shared our views. I think it is important for people my age (I'm in eighth grade) to be able to express their opinion, since we can't vote.

Posted by: FlamingLiberal at August 31, 2004 08:11 PM

with best regard to this , i would like to asked if whether internationally country can undertake such voting

Posted by: baba at September 1, 2004 01:57 PM

FlamingLiberal,

I agree with you on that we are all responsible for the youth of America. When a young woman finds that she is pregnant, we need to offer viable alternatives and we should be stepping up to help care for her child, make sure she finishes high school and becomes a responsible and contributing citizen of this great land. Most people opposed to abortion feel this way, some don't, some are exactly as you state and I feel sorry for them. It's not about punishing them, it's about accountability for our actions. It's not about condemnation, it's about helping to lift them up so that they don't have to go through the rest of their lives punishing themselves as many women do after they have an abortion. We need to be willing to help them. That's the only way we can change the world. This is what your President means when he calls for Compassionate Conservatism.

I would prefer that the abstinance policy would be the direction, but it's tough and I know it. I've been out of the 8th grade for a real long time, but not that long that I don't remember what it was like to be a teen. Actually, I don't think it's about teaching a lesson to anyone. It's about the value of a human life, no matter what age, the unborn child, the youth, the adult or the elderly. All life is valuable.

You might find that an odd statement for one who supports the war but my support for the war has far less to do with the 3,000 who died on Septemeber 11th than it does with 1.3 million people Saddam Hussein killed. We should have intervened long before, economic sanctions didn't help, negotiations didn't help, he just kept killing and he had to be stopped.

War is never a popular agenda, there are always those who are opposed to it and their voices should never be quieted. We need to hear from them because they hold us all accountable. But sometimes war is a necessity. When all other options have been pursued and the only way to end the atrocities of a man like Hussein, then war becomes the only other option.

If you watched the Republican National Convention you would have heard from an Iraqi woman who was part of a delegation from her country which has been formed to come to this country and get the message out about what the liberation forces are doing for her and her people in Iraq. She compared it to our own civil war. 11.3 million people died. More had their hands cut off and were branded with x's on their foreheads because they spoke in opposition of Suddam. Somebody had to step in. America is the strongest force in the world, moraly, economically and militarily. This great priveledge also carries with it great responsibility.

In many ways you are right. The war on terrorism can not really ever be won. There will always be a few groups who are opposed to reason and basic human understandings and will have hearts filled with hatred. The real victory of the war on terror is about stopping the agenda of the last 30 years that empowers terrorism and allows countries the freedom to harbor, support and encourage terrorism. That war can be won and we have made a great deal of progress in that arena. Al Sadyr's militia is now sitting down to peace talks with the government in Iraq. That's very positive.

You might not see God getting mad about Gay marriage but there are 14 seperate and distinct passages in scripture where God deals directly with the gay issue. In those passages, God tells us he doesn't like it. I'm not comfortable with telling God what God thinks. God is, after all, God. I think God knows what's best for us. God created us and I see the Bible as sort of an owner's manual for us. It's the instruction book on how to find real peace, joy and happinnes in this life. If we all paid a whole lot more attention to the instructions, stopped telling God how wrong he is and started living our lives according to the instructions, I really belive that we wouldn't have anything to discuss in the blogs.

Keep on expressing your views. You won't learn a whole lot if you only engage in debate with people who agree with you. Debating with those who disagree with you gives you an opportunity to hear the issue from a different perspective. Then you can evaluate your positions and in doing so you will either find your positions strengthened or you will be challenged to change your mind.

I do think that, perhaps being in the eigth grade, so firmly aligning yourself as a Flaming Liberal is a rush to judgment. That isn't to diminish your age or your credibility. You have a lot of life to experience ahead of you and you don't know what path you will find youself on as time passes. It is only my intention to encourage you to expand your horizon and invetigate before you identify yourself so quickly to an extremist position.

I have been called, at various times in my life, a liberal and a conservative based on the person I endorse as President. This year I will vote Republican because this is the party that most aligns with my political and personal views. The next 4 years will dictate how I vote then. The truth is that I am first and foremost a Christian. I am biased by my faith. I'm also not a perfect Christian because my journey in this life isn't over yet. Because I'm not perfect, I defer to God's advice on issues that I can't totally understand. If God tells me something through the Bible that something is wrong, then I figure God knows what God's talking about and I'm not qualified to tell God that God is wrong.

Posted by: Jim Rodkey at September 3, 2004 03:53 AM

Hey...
I understand that life is important whether it it is a fetus or adult, but I don't understand why people are dying right now. Why are we having this war? Oh yeah, because Cheney is making money off of it, that's right...
Half the time, the man that gets a woman pregnant just runs off and leaves the baby and the mother. Should the man not be responsible for his actions as well? Should only the women be penalized for their actions? I know that some men do stick around, but what about the ones that don't? I am also not saying that I am dumb enough to engage in such activity that would cause me to get pregnant either... don't worry... haha.
I don't think we should tell God if he is right or not either, but his word is more important to me than what is in writing. Whether it states it in the bible or not doesn't prove it's true or false. Afterall, God didn't literally write the bible. I mean, come on, he didn't speak english...
I also don't think you should say I haven't done research just because I am an eighth-grader. I watched the conventions, Democratic and Republican. I also wrote a four-page report on the candidates' goals. From the research I've done, I can definitely tell I am a liberal Democrat. I am not trying to be rude... just trying to let you know that I am not just some mindless, apathetic middle schooler. Not all middle schoolers are either. Okay, so a great majority is, but not all of us... haha...
Thanks for your time and I look forward to another response from you...

Posted by: FlamingLiberal at September 4, 2004 06:35 PM

I love Bill Clinton!

Posted by: Flaming Liberal at September 5, 2004 06:58 PM

I hate Bill Clinton

Posted by: bill clinton at September 6, 2004 12:52 AM

That's too bad...

Posted by: FlamingLiberal at September 6, 2004 11:28 PM

Flaming Liberal,

I didn't mean to imply that you haven't done reasearch or that you are mindless. My point is that you have a whole life ahead of you and as you experience more of life, many of your opinion will change.

People are dying in Iraq right now in an attempt to put an end to things like the terrorist attack on the school in Russia. Brave men and women are giving the ultimate sacrifice so that all of us might have freedoms that the terrorists want to take away from us.

God speaks all languages, he created them all. The Bible was originally written in Aramaic, Hebrew and Greek and I recommend checking out Josh McDowall's "EVIDENCE THAT DEMANDS A VERDICT" for an essay on Biblical accuracy. It might provide you with some more information on while the testimony of the Bible is reliable as the word of God. Also, check out 2 Timothy 3:16.

As I've already stated, I don't find you to be mindless, in fact I find it very refreshing. I teach Jr. and Sr. High Sunday School at our church and I'd love to have more students who question. Only being concerned about ourselves is not a problem with 8th graders, it's a problem with all ages. Once our focus shifts away from ourself and onto the needs of others, the world becomes a much better place for us.

It's okay that you have liberal views, many of my own views are liberal, especially concerning social issues. I also have views that are strongly conservative. It would be nice if every issue was a matter of right and wrong but it's usually a lot more complex than that.

Men do need to be more accountable and unfortunately many of them aren't. Glad to hear that you understand the consequences and have taken a stand for yourself. If more people were like you, the world wouldn't even be debating the abortion issue.

By the way, I liked Bill Clinton too.

Posted by: Jim Rodkey at September 7, 2004 07:47 AM

Thanks...
I was reading a magazine the other day and I came to an article written by a sixteen-year-old Iraqi girl. She said she didn't like the war at all. She also said she wishes we wouldn't have come over there in the first place. Did you know that kids missed school for a whole year because of us? That is simply wrong. Here is what it said in the article...
"I live in Basra, a city in southern Iraq. No bombs fell on houses in my area, but of course I was scared. The noise from the bombs and gunfire terrified my brothers and sisters, and they cried all the time. Since we never knew where the bombs would fall next, I missed a year of school.
It was hard--- I want to be a teacher, and my studies are the most important thing to me. But I am also a Muslim, so I believe that if God wills it, I will make up the time I lost. Even so, I wish the war here had never happened.
Now we have no security in place, and terrorists are setting off bombs. These terrorists aren't really religious--- they do it for their own purposes. However, because of the chaos that took place in the world, some people say that the violence is caused by Islam. But I read the Holy Koran ever day. It teaches you that you must deal with others peacefully. Islam comes from the word silm--- meaning peace.
My faith gives me hope that my new government will be more cooperative now. After all, we all want peace in our countries."

Posted by: FlamingLiberal at September 7, 2004 02:19 PM

FlamingLiberal,

The young girl and many like her did miss school because of the war but 1.3 million Iraqi's were killed by Suddam Hussein and will never go to school again. It's estimated that over 2/3 of them were women and children, some just to test Sarin and Mustard gasses developed in Hussein's labs. I believe that the terrorists do a great diisservice to the faith of Islam.

Over 100 years ago, America engaged in a Civil War to bring freedom to millions of blacks who were bound in chains and tortured by their masters. We said enough, we said they deserve their freedom and many died fighting for that freedom. Because we went to war, many slave owners killed their servants, tortured them even more but would we really want to go back and not fight that war. Sometimes wars are necessary to end an evil being committed against a group of people who are made weaker by their conditions. Once the dust of war has settled, we honor those who fell in the battle because they brought freedom and liberty to a people they did not know but did it simply because it was the right thing to do. I believe that our soldiers are doing this right now. I believe that our soldiers are sacrificing much for a people they do not know so that the world will be a better place to live in for all people and that 50 years from know we will look back and see that this was a good thing.

During a war, many disagree. During the Civil War, many opposed going to war, the same thing happened in both World Wars. Those caught up in the midst of the conflict faced days of fear and just wanted it to end. But history always offers a kinder perepective because we experience the results.

I do believe that peace will come to that land, our intention is not to occupy their land but to help them win their freedom and find a peace from escaping the clutches of a brutal dictator. Not all young girls were a priveledged as the young girl in the ariticle you read. Not all girls were allowed to go to school, simply because they were girls. As teachers, many women were not allowed to teach boys. Not because of their religion, but because a dictator said so and militant leaders pushed their agenda on the people through a corruption of the Islamic faith.

Most Americans are ignorant of the Iraqi faith and people. The only religious views many want to tolerate is Christianity, but we must hear from those in Iraq and others in the Islamic faith so that we can better understand their voice and their hopes. Thanks for pointing out the article.

Posted by: Jim Rodkey at September 8, 2004 12:56 AM

Mr. Rodkey-
You have to admit that George W. Bush has come up with many reasons for going to war. Not one has been proven.
*Weapons of mass destruction: Where are they? Cheney says that they know where they are and they know that they have them. If we knew they had them and where they were, we would be done by now. Instead, Cheney is protecting his precious Halliburton by risking the lives of innocent twenty-year-olds.
*Freeing the Iraqis: We aren't freeing them! We are simply torturing them, ruining their country, and killing them! Of the 18.4 billion dollars raised by Congress to rebuild Iraq, only 3.5 million dollars has been spent. More than half of that total was used for security and law enforcement... not reconstruction.
*Terrorism: Okay, first of all, open your eyes, did Sadaam Hussein attack us? I don't think so. We captured him. Great... but now what? What do we do now? What ever happen to Bin Laden anyway? "Our country is safe. We caught some guy that wasn't bugging us. Sure, the terrorists are still lurking and we are killing lots of innocent people (some of our own...) and endangering our country even more, but Cheney is making money... FOUR MORE YEARS!" Honestly... I just don't get how people can say this and mean it without feeling completely ignorant.
I can't think of any other reasons Bush has come up with in his small brain, but if you can think of anymore, I would love to hear them. I wish I could vote. You don't understand how difficult it is for people my age to sit there and put their lives in other people's hands. I look forward to another response...

Posted by: FlamingLiberal at September 8, 2004 07:56 PM

Flaming Liberal,
Take a look at this quote from John F Kerry,

Jan 23, 2003: "Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."

According to;
http://www.kerryquotes.com/

And why can't you vote?

Posted by: Wayne at September 8, 2004 11:11 PM

I am not old enough to vote...
My sister wants to get on though so I have to go... I shall post more later...

Posted by: Flaming Liberal at September 9, 2004 06:46 PM

Flaming Liberal,
I have to admit, your very well thought out. Let's look at some simple facts though.
1. The world is better off without Saddam, just ask the Kurds.

2. Iraq may have not had a connection with 9/11, but they have connections with terrorists. Kerry has even made this statement.

3. If this war is for oil, why is gas still almost $2.00 a gallon?

4. Did you ever think of the strategic point of going into Iraq? Saddam had the 4th largest army in the world. Now we have Iran surrounded. Many people thought this way about the Japanese not that long ago, and the Russians.

5. If we shouldn't vote for him than who should we vote for? I did say vote for and not against. Show me something Kerry has done for America while in the senate. After the first WTC bombing, Kerry legislated for $6.3 billion in intell cuts.

So FL, don't mean any disrespect just thought I would shorten your name, what are we to do? Vote someone in who stands on every side of every issue, just to get rid of someone that people hate? Or should we look at the big picture, remember 9/11 and vote for the best candidate for leading a war in terror?

I'm glad someone as young as yourself has taken an interest in politics, let's just look at all sides and all new sources.

I think someday you may be president by the way you debate. That was meant as a compliment.

Have a good day.

Posted by: Wayne at September 9, 2004 10:00 PM

Thanks...
Okay... I am not one of those people that is just completely against Bush and that is why I would vote for Kerry, don't worry. I researched both candidates on the internet and watched the news. Now, I understand that the news can be very misleading at times and I take that into consideration. I don't know that much about Kerry's accomplishments, but I do know a lot about his plans. I also know about Bush's mistakes and they are too huge to forget. John Kerry seems like a great candidate to me. I don't know how to explain it in any way other than saying it is just one of those gut feelings. Not only do I highly support Kerry, but I am completely upset with George Bush, so I guess that adds to the feeling...
*Sure, Sadaam Hussein was a man that did very bad things, but look at us now. What are we doing? Very bad things. We have ruined a country with lots of history. I almost started crying when I saw the mosques around all of the fighting. It is very upsetting. This was a beautiful country that was doing just fine. Sure, they had a horrible leader, but I think they would rather have a bad leader than an army trying to change their beliefs. I think they would rather be under Sadaam than an army of Americans taking torturous pictures of them. I know that I can't speak for them... no one can. We just have to listen to them and think about what they would really want though, instead of being obsessed with making sure that everyone is like us. Our country has always been obsessed with being a "free country" and being "independent" and now we want more people to be exactly like us? Our way of doing things is not the only right way. I don't know if you had a chance to read it, but I posted an excerpt from a magazine article that an Iraqi girl wrote. You can read it if you'd like.
*Why should we attack a country that has connections with terrorists instead of worrying more about the actual terrorists (***BIN LADEN***)? When you think about it, it is like taking revenge on a bully's friend, instead of facing the actual bully. We are not making our country safer by having this "war on terror."
*You're right. The gas prices have gone way up since the war was started. We depend on the Middle East for our oil but then we beat up on the smaller countries. What's up with that? George Bush hasn't done anything to decrease our level of dependence on the Middle East for oil. I am not saying that I KNOW anyone else will, but at least with another man in office we have a chance of it.
*Why should we try to get rid of Iraq just because they have a strong army? It is like trying to get rid of a kid just because he gets good grades or something (If you can't tell, I spend a lot of time at school...). I just don't think we would want people coming in and invading our country to hurt us just because we have a strong army. No one wants that.
*John Kerry believes in a better environment. Now, I know you are saying you shouldn't vote against people and I completely agree with you on that one. But, look at George Bush's accomplishments as governor of Texas. He ruined the beaches. Now, when you walk down them, you find little oil patches everywhere. Now, I may not know much about Kerry's senator career but I do know that he didn't do anything to harm our country. He didn't mess anything up and I think that is enough to take the vote of anyone. John Kerry also fought in Vietnam. George Bush didn't. John Kerry volunteered to go even though he didn't have a "military background" and I think that shows great leadership. He took charge. When he got back, he realized he didn't like the war so he became a VVAW. Maybe he didn't agree with it, but he still fought in it. I mean, come on, who agreed with it anyway?
Thanks for your post! Wow, you know what stinks though? Next election year, I will only be 17, so I still won't get to vote! I will be 21 before my vote starts to really count. Boo...
Anyway, thanks for your comment about being a president. I always thought it would be... not cool... but interesting to have that big a say in what goes on in our country. The stress level just seems so huge though. But, I mean, who knows? Someone has to do the job...
I look forward to another response from you.
HAVE A GREAT DAY!!!

P.S. Did you like having Bill Clinton as president? I did... just wondering what your opinion was...

Posted by: FlamingLiberal at September 11, 2004 03:35 PM

FL,
Another well thought out post on your behalf. It is really nice to have someone with a brain to debate here, this menas you. To answer your question about Bill Clinton. To be honest with you, I wasn't really into politics when he was president. I did like him and did vote for him. I wish he would have done more after the USS Cole. I don't know what I wanted him to do, but something would have been good. I don't really care about the whole Monica thing, I think the one that should be mad at him for that is his wife.

As far as Kerry's senate record not harming our country, it depenmds on how you look at it. I put our national security very high on my issues after 9/11. His record reflects one of cutting defense. The other thing that makes me very nervous about him is his changing his mind. I know it's a good thing to change your mind when your wrong, but that would make him worng on things 4 or 5 times.

I know Bush has his faults, like all of us. I just think he is better on defense and looks out for the little guy.

I'm glad there is finally someone who I can have a conversation on this subject without getting verbally attacked.

How old are you anyway? You don't sound like your too young to vote. Well keep up the great posts. People like you are the ones that help form others opinions.

Posted by: Wayne at September 12, 2004 12:02 AM

I would like to point out that being pro-choice doesn't mean "pro-abortion."
I am pro-choice because I believe that whether a woman has the baby or not is her choice. I myself cannot imagine not having the baby just because I would be curious to know who my baby ended up being. I don't think it is a horrible thing for a woman to do. I am just saying that I myself would find it hard to go through life not knowing what kind of person my baby was going to end up being.
I just had to point that out to you all...

Posted by: FlamingLiberal at September 12, 2004 01:40 PM

TWO MORE MONTHS! TWO MORE MONTHS!
Yay Kerry!
Yay Michael Moore!
Yay Bill Clinton!
Yay... vote Kerry...
~HaRdCoRe DoNkEy~

Posted by: Yay Michael Moore! at September 12, 2004 04:46 PM

Thanks...
Debating really is no fun when you just sit there and attack each other. What's the point in that, right?
When people say that Bill Clinton was a bad person for his own personal mistake, it kind of makes me angry. His mistake did nothing to ruin our country or harm anyone. Sure it hurt people on the inside, but no one was physically harmed. People make mistakes, and they should be forgiven.
I think at some point in time everyone changes their mind about something. George Bush as changed his mind plenty of times as well. I think it is better to admit your mistakes though. You shouldn't keep it inside all of the time. People also say that John Kerry says one thing and then does another, when really, all politicians do that at some point. John Kerry doesn't do it nearly as much as most politicians.
You're right as far as saying everyone has faults. I think that is true. We all make mistakes. George Bush's mistakes are way too huge for anyone to forget though. He made mistakes that affected our whole country... our whole world, in fact! People say they like him because he is an average guy. Personally I want someone smarter and stronger than me running our country, though. I don't care to have someone on or below my intelligence level as high up as Bush.
I am in middle school. I promise! Haha... anyway... I just started finding politics interesting when George Bush was "elected" in 2000. Ever since, I have been doing research for myself to find out about all of the different issues. Thinking back, I have a lot of "debate buddies" from different sites! Hee hee...
I have to go now. Keep posting and have a great day!
P.S. Do you like the electoral vote system? I don't! I think they should use the popular votes. Just because a state is small doesn't mean it should have less say, right?

Posted by: FlamingLiberal at September 12, 2004 09:03 PM

As I sit here and watch the news, I find out that our stupid, ignorant president has decided to spend yet more of the money raised by Congress for security in Iraq. Hmm... don't you think that 1.75 million dollars is enough? I do! Why don't we take the 18.4 billion dollars raised by Congress for something called "RECONSTRUCTION?" I mean, isn't that the what the money is for anyway? YES! Sorry. I am just very irritated. I just saw a dead baby on t.v. because of our STUPID LEADER. It just put me over the edge...

Posted by: FlamingLiberal at September 13, 2004 06:38 PM

FL,
When do you consider the start of life? I know people have different views of this, but wouldn't you say if you think life starts at conception than abortion is murder?

I also agree with you that we should do away with the electoral vote, I think it takes away some peoples voting power. For example, everyone knows that California will vote democrat. What about the republican voters in that state? Or when a state has a very close election, half ths state loses out because the other half plus one likes the other guy? Not fair. I know this means Al Gore would have been a shoe in, that thought makes me a little uncomfortable.

As far as Bush spending more money in Iraq, what choice do we have? If we cut and run, or lose, the terrorist will have a victory and they will fight even harder. Did you also see that Russia is getting more aggresive with terror now?

I know Bush has made mistakes, but I think we are looking in two different directions. The illegal alien thing he did, I do not like. As far as national security goes, I think he is right on, and this in my view outweighs the other.

Liberals always point out the deficit. My view is, I too think it is out of hand, but after 9/11 our economy was trashed. Don't you think our economy is much better off now than after 9/11?

I await your next posts, and keep up the good work. You are what America is about, and if you run for president I am sure you will do well, but I have to vote more conservativly. No offense implied.

Have a good day.

Posted by: Wayne at September 13, 2004 10:26 PM

It's okay. I wouldn't expect your vote anyway... haha...
I think that life starts when the baby is taken out of the mother's body. I think life starts the first time the baby takes hold of its mother's or father's hand with its small little fingers. I cannot imagine myself getting an abortion, like I said, but I still think other women should have that option. What about rape? If a woman is raped, does she then get certified to have an abortion? Some people say it is only okay for a woman to have an abortion if they were raped. What makes the baby any more innocent in that case? If a raped woman has the right to abortion, why doesn't a woman that either chose to have sex or was pressured into it have that same option? The life at hand is still the same. I am not saying you are one of those people that says that. I was just trying to clear up that when people do say that, it gets on my nerves. Now, I don't think the government should control whether you have a baby or not. Personally, I think if I had the choice of living on the streets with a loser for a mother or being dead, I would choose to never have been born at all. Now, I know that this sounds weird, but I really and truly believe that is how I would feel. Imagine a teenager having a baby and then blaming the baby for her horrbile life. No one deserves that.
We wouldn't be the center of attention if Bush had never started the war anyway. And, yes, I am saying that Bush started the war. I will not be known as a member of a group of people that started this war. I don't care if you say that rebuilding will bring on the terrorists, we got ourselves into this mess and now we have to get out of it. What happens when Bush runs out of volunteers to kill in this pointless war anyway? Will my brother end up in war? Will my sister? WILL I? This is truly horrible and we need to get out of it. Congress raised money to rebuild Iraq, not to work on security and law enforcement. Let's face it, George Bush has gone completely crazy with the money.
Personally, I felt safer when we didn't have Bush in office. Nobody likes George Bush! Ask my friends who went to Europe. They all can't stand him. They want him gone. Hmm... this sounds just like the way we felt about Sadaam. And what did we do to get rid of him? We invaded a country and killed their people. Is that going to happen to us next? We are making everyone else angry with us, and I think they have a good excuse.
3.5 million jobs or so were lost while Bush was in office. Our economy is worse than it has ever been before. That is not good. The only new jobs Bush has started are all minimum wage. Do you honestly think our economy is good right now?
Thanks for the post. I look forward to more of yours as well. And, again, I have to say, I would not expect you to vote for me, don't worry. I am sure you would make a good president too, but I am extremely liberal. Haha...

Posted by: FlamingLiberal at September 14, 2004 04:12 PM

FL,
Did you know that Kerry thinks life starts at conception? Yes, that's right. So does that make abortion murder to him? Look, I am not saying I want to outlaw abortion, it is just something I would not choose to do. It all goes back to taking resposibility for your own actions.

As far as the economy is going, we took a major hit on 9/11. How many countries could withstand something like that? How do you explain the lower unemployment rate?

And as to getting out of Iraq. Let's say we cut and run from there. Then the Kurds will fight the Soonies, the Soonies fight the Sheites(spelled wrong), and Turkey and Iran just foaming at the mouth to get in and kill them all. Then oil production is halted in those countries and surrounding areas, price of oil goes thru the roof and our economy suffers greatly because we did not finish what we started. I would like to think that we have given the Kurdish children hope for a better future, as well as the whole middle east. I'm sure there were people who thought the way you do back in 1942 about the Japanese and Germans.

Looking foward to your post and thank you for keeping it civilized. It's nice to know that people can still disagree without insulting each other.

Posted by: Wayne at September 14, 2004 09:44 PM

Flaming Liberal,

I have to wonder, with your abortion talk and all... Do you support Laci's Law? Its a law that allows people to be prosecuted for criminal acts that kill or otherwise harm unborn children.

An example I would like to show would be the following:

If a girl is driving to the hospital, and she's 9 months pregnant. A drunken driver hits her head on, hurting her slightly, but causing her to lose the baby. If John Kerry's view on this were to prevail in the Senate, the guy driving the car would ONLY get a DUI, and no charges would be filed against him for killing the child inside of the woman. John Kerry voted AGAINST this, but thank god it passed anyways. It was signed into law by President Bush. There's a sadness that comes over me whenever someone proclaims life as 'starting at birth', because its not even debateable. At conception it already larger than millions of known 1-cell LIFE forms. The debate about when the baby gets a 'soul' is non-existant as well. In the NIV version of the bible, God proclaims in Jeremiah 1:5 "Before I formed you in the womb... I knew you".... I can only hope you change your mind on this issue Flaming Liberal... I can only hope....

Posted by: Conservatism at September 14, 2004 10:04 PM

Conservatism---
I am a girl. Imagine me getting raped. Do you think I should have to have the baby? I am only in eighth grade. Should I have to go through with a C-section and have a child before I even enter highschool? If you say no, because I was raped, you are basically saying a woman should be punished and that is what the baby is... a punishment. That is truly wrong. My getting raped would not make the baby any less innocent than if I made the bad decision of having sex before I was ready. People say you should be accountable for your actions, and that is true. But I have a question for you. Would you rather see irresponsible teenagers on the streets, doing drugs, with a baby in their arms, or teenagers going to college and having a successful future, turning their lives around... and then having a baby and raising it correctly? I am not saying abortion should be used as birth control, because that is just wrong. I am saying, if a teenager makes a mistake, they shouldn't be thrown out on the streets expected to make their way. They should have a chance to fix their life. I am not saying I would ever engage in such activity, but I know that there are some people out there that would. The pressure is huge and, unfortunately, some kids buy into it. I have to say that I, myself, couldn't ever imagine getting an abortion. I am just saying other kids should have the choice.

Sincerely,
Flaming Liberal

Posted by: Flaming Liberal at September 15, 2004 06:37 PM

Wayne---
I am sorry but I have a test to study for, so this will be a short post...
I think your opinion on abortion would change if you actually knew someone that had a baby at a young age. Even someone like me that you met at a posting site. Imagine if I ever got pregnant. Should the option of abortion not be available to me? You don't have to answer that, just trying to get you to see my view. Now, don't worry, I am not planning on getting pregnant any time soon...
I am sorry but I don't quite understand what you are asking me here about the economy... I certainly do think the unemployment rate is high...
You're right, we do need to finish this war. But George Bush and Dick Cheney have only come up with plans of making it bigger. I am not just saying that either. They literally said they were planning on hitting other countries in the Middle East. How many more people have to die before George Bush realizes how horrible this war is?
Anyway, I better go study now... I look forward to another response from you as well. Bye!

~Flaming Liberal

Posted by: FlamingLiberal at September 15, 2004 06:43 PM

FL,
I have stated that I do not want to outlaw abortion for the reasons you cited. However, seeing how you are only in eighth grade, that makes you yor parents responsibility, and it sounds like they have done a great job raising you. Would they throw you out if you were pregnant? Kerry has stated that life starts at conception, yeet he is pro-choice. Does that make him for murder? Just a thought. With the rape thought in mind, I can see you point of view that the baby would be a punishment, a reminder of the horrible act commited against a young woman. With that being said, there is another side to look at. What did that baby do wrong?

As far as unemployment rates go, it is now lower than when Clinton ran for re-election. Lower than when Bush got in office, so how can you say it is too high?

Posted by: Wayne at September 16, 2004 08:26 AM

"Lower than when Bush got in office, so how can you say it is too high?"

Posted by: Wayne at September 16, 2004 08:26 AM

Wayne,

Just to show that I'm not biased about incorrect information. The statement is not accurate. In fact it was around 4% when Bush entered the office, and is now 5.4%. I just don't wanna see you get jumped on like D. Jones does in every other post haha...Otherwise, great posts!! keep it up!!

Posted by: Conservatism at September 16, 2004 12:59 PM

Wayne,
Unfortunately, not all parents are as great as mine. Some would put their kids out on the streets if they got pregnant. Some already put their kids on the street because they don't want the kids.
I do not think Kerry is for murder, because everyone has a different idea of when life really starts. I think he realizes that some people don't agree with him as far as when life starts goes, so he is willing to make an exception for them.
I was simply saying that some people that are pro-life say there should be an exception for people that were raped. And, in that case, I was wondering how that baby was any less innocent than one that was conceived on purpose or as the result of a stupid mistake. I was not saying the baby is any less innocent. I already stated that I cannot see myself getting an abortion. I just think that people should have that choice.
Maybe I wasn't clear when I said the unemployment rates are high. I should have said not enough people had good or successful jobs. Over a million jobs were lost when Bush was in office. The only ones created were minimum-wage, burger-flipping jobs. I think four years is long enough. Well, I guess we will see how everyone else feels in 47 days...

Sincerely,
Flaming Liberal

P.S. Did you hear that Arnold Schwarzenegger may have a chance at running for president? How scary...

Posted by: FlamingLiberal at September 16, 2004 04:29 PM

Flaming Liberal,
I am an RN, I have seen many, many pregnant teen-agers. And I have seen many pregant women who chose abortion. By the way, very rarely do teen-agers choose to have abortions! I know of one! Most of the women who choose to have an abortion suffer terribly afterwards. They suffer from depression, remorse, regret and many even become suicidal! They are also very angry because they feel that they have been lied to! In the case of rape there is now the morning after pill that is almost fail-safe in preventing pregnancy if administered within 72 hrs of intercourse. Women do not die in childbirth anymore. Occasionally we lose a baby, but childbirth fatalities are extremely rare and are usually because the woman had some serious medical problems and risked having a baby against their Drs advice. I agree that an unwanted pregnancy is a huge crisis and there are no easy solutions. I just resent the lies that the abortion rights activists keep spinning. Abortion is NOT a simple solution to a huge problem, more times than not it catapults the problem into a life crisis! I know, I've met these women, talked with them, and held them in my arms while they've cried!
Medical science has proven that fetus's as early as 16 weeks, smile, suck their thumb, and respond to verbal and physical stimuli.
I have to ask a question, shouldn't the fathers of these unwanted children have ANY say in what happens to them? Would you want someone else making the decision on whether YOUR baby should live or die?
Abortion rights is a complex subject, one that deserves researching and understanding the truth! Not just the spin that activists want you to believe! And that means activists on BOTH sides. I personally believe that abortion is wrong! But I also know that my generation is far too selfish to ever make the wrong right! My only hope is that your generation will not flinch from seeing the truth and doing something to change what future generations will recognize as a barbaric practice. The truth is that millions of children have been sacrificed on the altar of convenience. And we have lied and said 'rape' and the 'health of the mother', when the truth is that only a miniscule fraction of the abortions performed in this country are done for those reasons.
Good luck to you, I hope your choices are wise and that you will diligently seek to know the truth!

Posted by: kathy at September 16, 2004 08:49 PM

FL,
I have to agree on the Arnold issue, it is a bit scary. But back to unemployment. I would like to thank Conservatism for the information and I stand corrected. However, it is lower than when Clinton ran for re-election. If Bush lost 1 milliion jobs and the unemployment rate keeps falling, how can we still be short 1 million jobs? Did 9/11 have anything to do with the job losses?

I am glad you have great parents, and it shows by the way you debate people. This is a compliment. Isn't his something that America should strive for? Better parents? Not everything can be a social program and handed to people. You must make your own life, no matter what cards you are dealt, you can make a change or you can lay down and take whatever life throws at you. I was very poor growing up, I'm not rich now but I have made a good life for myself, wife and son with another son on the way in December. Together we have bought a house and even remodeled most of it to our liking, we did all this without help from the government. I am not saying people don't need help, just that the best help is doing for yourself.

What are your plans for your life? What are your goals? Do you want to make your own life or have someone give it to you?

I await your post.

Posted by: Wayne at September 16, 2004 11:21 PM

Kathy,
If the father of the baby sticks around, then they most likely will have a say in what happens to their baby. But, unfortunately, not all fathers do stick around. I don't think abortion is the solution to any problem. I just think that whether the baby is born or not should not be controlled by government or anyone else. It should be the choice of the woman and the man. Again, I must say that I cannot imagine myself ever having an abortion. I am just saying that I feel that women should have that right.
It is just like the gay marriage issue. I would never get married to a woman because I am not gay, but I think people should have that right.
I hope you can see my views and understand where I am coming from.
I look forward to hearing from you.

Posted by: FlamingLiberal at September 17, 2004 08:46 PM

Wayne,
The unemployment rate is not what I am concerned with. I understand that 9/11 could have had something to do with all of the jobs lost but I still think everyone should realize that somewhere around 3.5 million jobs were lost under George Bush's presidency and he is held partially responsible for that.

Thanks. I have been blessed with a wonderful life, and for that I am thankful.

Congratulations on the new baby! I am sure you and your wife will do a great job raising him/her and I wish you both the best of luck.

I have lots of plans! Wow, I could just go on. I plan on attending the University of Florida and majoring in writing and minoring in political science. I then want to attend the Iowa Writing Workshop. I will come back to Florida and write a novel, have it turned into a screenplay, and become FAMOUS! Haha... those are my dreams anyway...

I have always been told to hold on to my dreams... and I definitely will! I have already come up with an idea for a novel, so that kind of excites me. I have written many short stories and poems. My parents say I would make a good political speech-writer. I think that would be great fun as well.
And I, of course, want to make my own life. My family knows a guy that just graduated high school that has a disability and I just feel so bad for him. I know he is probably the happiest guy alive because his family isn't exactly poor so he can basically do whatever he wants as far as the money issue goes. But what happens when he wants to meet a girl and maybe start a family? I don't know... I just feel so bad. I can't imagine always relying on other people for what I want. That is what I hate about group project